Well yer a boring bunch a fannies . . .

[DaveS]

Love to share your vision, BoB, but post independence, SNP will still rule the roost - I don't see any fledgling parties standing in the wings and no-one with the political clout to start anything new off. Conservatives are unelectable (don't know why, anyone hazard a guess?), Labour will struggle. Scotland post independence will be bankrupt, it only depends how quickly they spend the money, There will be a post independence honeymoon glow that when it wears off, big financials will back off - or the interest rates will just not be available at a competative rate. it will be a one-off sum of money which will burn a hole in the political pockets of ministers.

Now. Where's Nick to tell me that's going to be a load of pish?

Donald

Well, to insert my tuppence worth, I would agree that the SNP would likely form the government for at least the first post independence parliament, but that other political groupings would grow and perhaps replace them. A valid criticism of the SNP is that they talk radical but act quite conservative. However, real politics is the art of the possible. It is obvious that supporting a Scandinavian style benefits system requires higher taxation, but the SNP's "penny for Scotland" pitch back in 2002(?) went down like a lead balloon. The fact that "Scottish" Labour now think that would be a good idea simply shows their lack of awareness. Additional taxation is required, because the Scottish economy would be in deficit (not 15 Bn, but a deficit nevertheless) and that's unsustainable. Raiding income tax is not the only option though. The Greens have some interesting ideas involving wealth taxation.

[claymore]

Love to share your vision, BoB, but post independence, SNP will still rule the roost - I don't see any fledgling parties standing in the wings and no-one with the political clout to start anything new off. Conservatives are unelectable (don't know why, anyone hazard a guess?), Labour will struggle. Scotland post independence will be bankrupt, it only depends how quickly they spend the money, There will be a post independence honeymoon glow that when it wears off, big financials will back off - or the interest rates will just not be available at a competative rate. it will be a one-off sum of money which will burn a hole in the political pockets of ministers.

Now. Where's Nick to tell me that's going to be a load of pish?

Donald

Well, to insert my tuppence worth, . A valid criticism of the SNP is that they talk radical but act quite conservative..

Aah yes - which supports my theory that there is not really any such thing as radical if you want to remain electable. Mr Blair was smart in that he took Conservative policies and re-badged them as New Labour and then the electorate saw through it all, saw that it wasn't sustainable and after a decent run, back came the Conservatives. Welsh and Scottish Nationalists have been around for a while, of course but to describe them as radical would be quite a claim.

[Aja]

Love to share your vision, BoB, but post independence, SNP will still rule the roost - I don't see any fledgling parties standing in the wings and no-one with the political clout to start anything new off. Conservatives are unelectable (don't know why, anyone hazard a guess?), Labour will struggle. Scotland post independence will be bankrupt, it only depends how quickly they spend the money, There will be a post independence honeymoon glow that when it wears off, big financials will back off - or the interest rates will just not be available at a competative rate. it will be a one-off sum of money which will burn a hole in the political pockets of ministers.

Now. Where's Nick to tell me that's going to be a load of pish?

Donald

Well, to insert my tuppence worth, I would agree that the SNP would likely form the government for at least the first post independence parliament, but that other political groupings would grow and perhaps replace them. A valid criticism of the SNP is that they talk radical but act quite conservative. However, real politics is the art of the possible. It is obvious that supporting a Scandinavian style benefits system requires higher taxation, but the SNP's "penny for Scotland" pitch back in 2002(?) went down like a lead balloon. The fact that "Scottish" Labour now think that would be a good idea simply shows their lack of awareness. Additional taxation is required, because the Scottish economy would be in deficit (not 15 Bn, but a deficit nevertheless) and that's unsustainable. Raiding income tax is not the only option though. The Greens have some interesting ideas involving wealth taxation.

Dave

Other than what the Greens have up their left sleeve, the only way forward is taxation? That's a promising future. As I said once the windfall money post devolution is spent no one will invest at rates that are available as a part of the UK. Middle income earners will not be particularly happy when they get taxed to support an ever increasing financial hole.

Now. Swinney can wave his arms about and laugh all he likes on Assistant FMQ's but he didn't answer the question yesterday. The SNP INdependence debate relies on including oil revenues.
Donald

[Nick]

Love to share your vision, BoB, but post independence, SNP will still rule the roost - I don't see any fledgling parties standing in the wings and no-one with the political clout to start anything new off. Conservatives are unelectable (don't know why, anyone hazard a guess?), Labour will struggle. Scotland post independence will be bankrupt, it only depends how quickly they spend the money, There will be a post independence honeymoon glow that when it wears off, big financials will back off - or the interest rates will just not be available at a competative rate. it will be a one-off sum of money which will burn a hole in the political pockets of ministers.

Now. Where's Nick to tell me that's going to be a load of pish?

Donald

erm . . . that's a load of pish, Donald . . .

. . . if a long way from the ethics of Amazon issue

[Aja]

Love to share your vision, BoB, but post independence, SNP will still rule the roost - I don't see any fledgling parties standing in the wings and no-one with the political clout to start anything new off. Conservatives are unelectable (don't know why, anyone hazard a guess?), Labour will struggle. Scotland post independence will be bankrupt, it only depends how quickly they spend the money, There will be a post independence honeymoon glow that when it wears off, big financials will back off - or the interest rates will just not be available at a competative rate. it will be a one-off sum of money which will burn a hole in the political pockets of ministers.

Now. Where's Nick to tell me that's going to be a load of pish?

Donald

erm . . . that's a load of pish, Donald . . .

Great answer Nick.

. . . if a long way from the ethics of Amazon issue

[wully]

Is that the smell coffee?

Should be the smell of fresh saw dust as you crack on and get yer boat finished!

When are you back up?

[wully]

We leave Wednesday to go and start sailing new boatie home

It might take more than a few days.....

[Telo]

[..... the Scottish economy would be in deficit (not 15 Bn, but a deficit nevertheless)

Sorry Dave, I'm not following your argument. Why couldn't there be a deficit of £15bn?

After all, the figures published last year by the Scottish government showed a £14.8bn deficit.

[claymore]

All the best on your delivery trip, fair winds.

+2

[DaveS]

[..... the Scottish economy would be in deficit (not 15 Bn, but a deficit nevertheless)

Sorry Dave, I'm not following your argument. Why couldn't there be a deficit of £15bn?

After all, the figures published last year by the Scottish government showed a £14.8bn deficit.

Because the GERS figures show the assumed (well, guessed) position of Scotland as part of the UK and are not really representative of what an independent Scotland would look like.

A simple sense check suggests that the £15b figure is nonsense. The idea that an independent Scotland with its natural resources, it's exports (£4b for whisky alone) and a positive goods balance of payments (as opposed to the UK with a massive balance of payments deficit) should have the weakest economy in Europe makes no sense at all.

[Nick]

.
There's also the assumption that a percentage of UK wide spending (including eg Trident and HS2) is money spent on Scotland.

Does the team think we maybe need a separate Politics forum?

[marisca]

.
Does the team think we maybe need a separate Politics forum?

Absolutely not! Just 'cos you've been bounced frae TOP's cesspit, eh? Why not go cold turkey for a wee while. There will be plenty to get excited about in a few months.

[Nick]

Au contraire

I'm apparently in good standing on TOP but Mountain's Lounge access seems to have been suspended though. He's posted a few times on SB but hadn't been heard from for 3 days.

I only suggested a politics forum because others seemed so inclined - 'twasn't me who mentioned it first.

[wully]

All the best on your delivery trip, fair winds.

+2

Currently cowering in Cowes as it's a tad breezy on the nose. Warm though and plenty to do both on and off boatie.

Might leave ramorra.

Might not.

[fairy nuff]

Au contraire

I'm apparently in good standing on TOP but Mountain's Lounge access seems to have been suspended though. He's posted a few times on SB but hadn't been heard from for 3 days.

I only suggested a politics forum because others seemed so inclined - 'twasn't me who mentioned it first.

Please no, you'll only attract a crowd of undesirables and make the place smell and look untidy.