Condition surveys for the insurance

[Zophiel]

Just had a bit of a shock to the system. My usually excellent and good value insurance brokers want a full out of water condition survey this winter before they'll renew the insurance. The shock was the quote - 600 squid for looking at a 27ft boat. That's nearly two quid an inch or about the price of keeping the boat for a year anywhere in northern Europe outside the UK.

Do others have experience of this and are there any ways of making it less disastrous on the pocket? She's 33 years old and had a full survey in late 2002 when I bought her, which is admittedly a long time ago.

Ta

[claymore]

I had this put to me a few years ago so I rang and asked them why and after some discussion, they dropped the request. The discussion focussed on the work that had been carried out in relation to the survey (1996) that was done when I bought Claymore. I offered to show them invoices etc.

600 squids does seem a lot but then we are talking about Zophiel - perhaps the insurers are avid readers of your excellent books and this has set them thinking that Zoph must be a bit tired after all that Bobbing and Celtic Fringing and perhaps they should be getting someone to take a look at her?

[Aja]

I had the same problem put to me earlier this year. Towergate wanted full survey after 10 years of no claims with them. I asked why and was told to satisfy the underwriters. I got a quote from a couple of other insurers and went for GJW who were happy for a further 5 years before survey and were also happy to charge me over £100 less per annum for the privelidge. One satisfied customer

Regards
Donald

[Booby Trapper]

Strange that GJW are then giving you 15 years since the last survey. I'm with them and they want a survey every 7 years. I'm due one this winter but as I'm planning staying in I'm going to try to get an extension. Anyone had any luck with that?

[ash]

Strange that GJW are then giving you 15 years since the last survey. I'm with them and they want a survey every 7 years. I'm due one this winter but as I'm planning staying in I'm going to try to get an extension. Anyone had any luck with that?

I was insured with GJW, under the full 3 word name, through a broker. When asked for an out of water survey, I managed to postpone it for 15 months to tie in with my move from Loch Lomond to Kip.

Ash

Edit I can't access my boat info at the moment, so can't remember what the cost was. It certainly was based on a LOA figure. I won't say who I used because it seems to cause as much controversy as anchor choice. I thought that the cost was reasonable, and I was happy with the result. It's not as though it's a pre-purchase survey.

[SteveN]

It's not as though it's a pre-purchase survey.

I fear that my insurers (HKJ) may be asking for one next year as I'm in my tenth year since purchase, refit and survey.
Last time I trawled around for quotes (i.e. ten years ago) I was suprised that few surveyors were willing to differentiate between pre-purchase and insurance-only surveys, only offering the one 'product' i.e. a full condition survey. Perhaps this is driven by the underwriters, I don't know, but I suspect that it's more to do with surveyors wanting to spread their indemnity insurance premiums across their whole range of work. Their really should be a cheaper insurance survey available to us owners, after all it's a simple statement of condition, all the pre-amble about make, build, dimensions won't have changed since the last survey and indemnity insurance shouldn't be required.

£600 does seem one helluva lot for half a day's work and is especially galling of course because most hands-on owners could easily do it themselves and know far more about their boat than any surveyor with a torch is ever going to find out. As anyone canl call themselves a Yacht Surveyor, there being no one accepted qualification or governing body, when mine becomes due I might set myself up as Yacht Surveyor for the day and see if they notice

[Booby Trapper]

Just had a bit of a shock to the system. My usually excellent and good value insurance brokers want a full out of water condition survey this winter before they'll renew the insurance. The shock was the quote - 600 squid for looking at a 27ft boat. That's nearly two quid an inch or about the price of keeping the boat for a year anywhere in northern Europe outside the UK.

Do others have experience of this and are there any ways of making it less disastrous on the pocket? She's 33 years old and had a full survey in late 2002 when I bought her, which is admittedly a long time ago.

Ta

http://teemsurveys.co.uk/ will def be cheaper than that. I'm not saying they are the best or the worst. But if you know all the things wrong with your boat and you just need to meet insurance requirements I would give them a call.

[Zophiel]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I'll try Teem Surveys. Predictably, the 'Teem' appears to be one bloke and his wife. I'll not be shopping about for new insurers though, since my broker has been fantastic and - I think - cheap. They've shelled out almost 20 grand over the years and always paid up without a murmur and without even raising the premium.

They actually asked for a survey last year but I didn't spot the condition on the renewal so they extended the deadline without a fuss

Given my propensity for running into rocks and stuff it's probably not an unreasonable request so I expect I'll just need to bite the bullet.

[mm5aho]

Our last survey by this guy. Told him the reason for the survey, and that was taken into account.
Don't remember the price but very reasonable.
http://www.mylne.com/Ian_Nicolson

[Booby Trapper]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I'll try Teem Surveys. Predictably, the 'Teem' appears to be one bloke and his wife. .

Yes you are correct but that's 1 more than most surveyors.

[ParaHandy]

I would strongly recommend you change insurer. More often than not its the underwriters who are asking.

It cost me a lot of money which included a full rigging replacement. I reasoned that the premium should be markedly reduced upon completion otherwise what's the point in doing it? What you are doing is reducing the underwriter's risk at your cost.

Having to replace the rigging without a condition survey, without any statistical data to support replacement, without any recognition of the restrictions placed on the permitted areas to sail in and just anything, particularly wrankled.

[claymore]

I would strongly recommend you change insurer. More often than not its the underwriters who are asking.

It cost me a lot of money which included a full rigging replacement. I reasoned that the premium should be markedly reduced upon completion otherwise what's the point in doing it? What you are doing is reducing the underwriter's risk at your cost.

Having to replace the rigging without a condition survey, without any statistical data to support replacement, without any recognition of the restrictions placed on the permitted areas to sail in and just anything, particularly wrankled.

Any reduction for replacing yer wrinkled treadmeister....?

[pagoda]

Ian,

I would suggest you look at Y yacht Insurance. The guy who runs it is a sailor. If you can describe the kind of maintenance you do and plan for I think you will be recognised as a bona fide thoughtful owner. Many insurers just lose interest in their service and aim for profit margin first. You just got that hit.
I have no commercial connection with Y - only a satisfied customer.

Graeme

PS Brodick and Whiting Bay moorings have been lifted ( a bit early considering the school Autumn break if you ask me!)

[Booby Trapper]

Graeme
Thanks for that info. I'll keep it in mind come renewal time.
I was over at Arran beginning of last week and they were still there. I've got a few things on now over the next few weekends that will take me into Nov so I took all sails etc off today. Sailing over for this season

[sahona]

Perhaps boats that are regularly out of the water and de-rigged could be assumed to be 'inspected' more rigorously than those who winter afloat or can be stored on the hard without dropping the rig. (but do the insurers take this into account?)
I've just prepared for coming ashore and noticed a stiffness and subsequent thread deformation on the backstay bottlescrew. I must confess to being amazed by the disparity in cost of the (online sourced) replacement : Less than a tenner to one hundred plus for a 7/16". Have ordered a 1/2" SS/Bronze for circa £60 - better in every way than the original. The rest are free and undistorted, and the other mast fittings pass muster. The boat comes out every second year so it's looked at regularly. There was no cause for concern last time it was set up - 2 years ago, so maybe the insurers 10-year test isn't so outrageous. I have no intention of re-rigging by age, as boat use is purely geriatric cruising with only the occasional "caught before reefing" incident, but we are able to keep an eye on things, and the rule is that you mustn't ignore or postpone any little hints you spot...