To break the silence...

[DaveS]

I tend to log on to the forum quite late at night so usually there are a fair number of posts to read from the previous 24 hours. But not today. Apart from the discussion on spam control there's nothing.

So, just as a starter for possible discussion...

The arguments for and against using a masthead tricolour are well rehearsed. What I haven't to date heard discussed is the possible advantage of using deck level nav. lights together with all round masthead red and green - the "special" additional nav. lights permitted for sailing vessels, but usually only seen on big boats like sail trainers. Using monochromatic LEDs all round red and green should be easy, with, unlike tricolours, no cut off issues - and of course low consumption. But I've never heard this idea put forward, let alone seen such kit available commercially. DIY might be a feasible option...

Thoughts?

[mm5aho]

I don't understand the difference between tricolour and monochromatic leds.
Isn't a tricolour system a series of monochromatic leds set out radially in a circle, such that each of the three colours points in the right direction?

Is there such a think as a non-monochromatic led? Not heard of one.

What is the cutoff issue about ?

[Rowana]

I've always assumed, though never really given it too much thought, that the main issue with all round red & green at the masthead is one of being able to see both at the same time.

Obviously, to enable another vessel at some distance to distinguish that there are 2 lights in the first place, then there must be a degree of seperation vertically on the mast. If the red is on the masthead, then the green needs to be some way down the mast where it will be obscured in part by the sails.

I would think that in order for the red/green thing to work for the average yacht, you would need some sort of a pole at the masthead with the green at the bottom and the red at the top.

Sounds too feckin' difficult for me, and for all the night sailing that I do, I'll just stick to the tricolour aloft.

[marisca]

Sticking £50 worth of Nasa tri-colour LEDs at the top of the mast was within my capabilities and budget. Replacing deck-level lights with LEDs and then adding red and green all-round lights on the mast doesn't seem to have sufficient advantages compared with the cost and faff. Whether the red and green are visible all round doesn't seem that important 'cos the lights of a sailing vessel are showing with or without them. The 10Mcandle torch to shine on the sails seems to be a more useful buy and you can also use it to see how close the shore really is.

[ash]

So, the masthead tricolour is just a means of saving power, and can only be used by sailing vessels under 20 metres.

The Red over Green ( is a sailing machine ) can be used by any sailing vessel but also needs the deck level lights to show direction of travel so I assume that this is to make it much more obvious but at the expense of power consumption. The need for a 1 metre vertical separation between the all round red and green must make installation trickier. To be all round then both lights would need to above the mast head.

On a wider note, The Edinburgh Model Boat Club have a very extensive PDF showing lights on vessels - http://www.edinburghmodelboatclub.org.u ... lights.pdf I haven't checked it for accuracy, but I'm sure that modellers have an eye for detail.

Ash

Edit - Sorry, I see that Rowana has already broached the need for a pole above the mast head so I haven't progressed the discussion by any distance. Must try harder

[mm5aho]

There seems to be a variety of possiblities for nav lights.

This is what many use, and could be balled a "tricolour" (it has three colours). Probably works OK?
http://www.force4.co.uk/979/Force-4-20M ... Light.html

This is what many others use. Mounted on mast bowside near the top, it would probably work.
http://www.force4.co.uk/978/Force-4-20m ... lour-.html

This is similar...
http://www.force4.co.uk/974/Force-4-Tri ... Light.html

THis, is what I thought was meant by "tricolour", when used with term "led".
http://www.marinesuperstore.com/posit/s ... o=99192525

The last would surely consume less power, but the issue of crossover / muddling of colours would be an issue at a distance.

[cpedw]

The training ships that I've seen with the red and green lights up their masts have all had two of each, one on each side of the mast, to get the all-round effect. I've only noticed them in port so I don't know how much they get obscured by sails. With no sails up, switched off in daylight, they seem to be quite prominent.

Derek

[sahona]

I'm not sure what advantage is being offered.
A masthead tric is seen above the swell. Try the Portugese coast!
If there is difficulty in discerning the colours (= trajectory) then just avoid it -plenty of colourblind peeps about, sailing happily and not crashing - and there isn't a colourblindness (dis)qualification as far as I'm aware.

[DaveS]

I don't understand the difference between tricolour and monochromatic leds.
Isn't a tricolour system a series of monochromatic leds set out radially in a circle, such that each of the three colours points in the right direction?

Is there such a think as a non-monochromatic led? Not heard of one.

What is the cutoff issue about ?

You are quite right that a LED tricolour uses a circular array of LEDs, the red and green sectors being monochromatic, but the white sector is polychromatic making it, well, white. White LEDs are now quite common.

The cut off issue, commented on by others, is the difficulty of obtaining, with tricolour LEDs, a clean colour separation at the sector boundaries.

[DaveS]

The training ships that I've seen with the red and green lights up their masts have all had two of each, one on each side of the mast, to get the all-round effect. I've only noticed them in port so I don't know how much they get obscured by sails. With no sails up, switched off in daylight, they seem to be quite prominent.

Derek

Indeed. I was speculating whether a green waterproof LED strip, 1m below the masthead, stuck round the mast but with a gap at the track would give a low cost, low consumption alternative. The red at the masthead could be a conventional lantern with LEDs or another strip. On a fractional rigged boat only a very small arc of the green would be obscured by the mainsail - and not at all if reefed.