Tiller Pilot for a Centaur.

[aquaplane]

Chiron came with an Autohelm 1000, an old one with a compass on top. It worked OK for a bit but then started to get tempramental and stopped working so I don't have much experience using it.

I have more or less decided to get another Raymarine tiller pilot but can't decide whether to spend the extra £100 on the ST2000.

A Centaur is supposed to weigh the 3000kg the ST1000 is rated to but from what I have heard most weigh 4000Kg in cruising trim so the ST1000 would be at or above it's rated capacity. On a YBW thread someone said go up a size, so that would be the ST2000 which works a bit faster.

We haven't used an autohelm of any sort much so I don't know what sort of use pattern it would get. I did seem like it would be a good idea to have one this summer when we were motoring longer distances than we are used to due to little or no wind.

Am I right in thinking that when it's rough we would want to be hand steering anyway or can we leave it to the autopilot and just keep lookout?

What have others found? Is a ST1000 good enough for a 26ish' boat?

[Greyfisherman]

We have a Sadler 26 and purchased the AH 2000 in preference to the 1000 some four years ago.

I'm not sure of my facts now but think the drive mechanism of the 2000 is different from the 1000 - which may help it cope with higher demands.

I singlehand a great deal and find I use the AH most of the time, it's been reliable and the only times I tend to hand steer is with a sea on the quarter or anything over say 16kts close hauled.

It seems to cope with most other conditions quite well but I do keep an ear open for Albert (the AH) and take over when I think I need to.

I also keep him dry with a bag they don't like getting wet - ridiculous really - it also goes home every winter to a nice warm dry environment.

I wanted something with "capacity on top" and so far the experience has justified the extra expense.

Good luck with your purchase.

David.

[ash]

I have the Raymarine ST 1000 Plus, which came with a free hard wired remote when I bought it.

The 'Plus' means that it can be controlled via NMEA or Seatalk - I not sure if you can still buy the more basic unit without the 'Plus'.

Despite the above facilities, mine is only ever used as a stand alone with control using the buttons on the main unit.

Mine is used on the Vega, which is 27' LOA, 23' LWL, long keel, with a design weight of 2,300Kgs.

The Vega tiller stock slopes up and back at about 45 degs, whilst the straight tiller is connected to the stock at the bottom of the cockpit so it has to slope up and forward at about 45 degs so that it can be connected to the TP at a reasonable position.

I can't now remember the actual figures, but the compromise in fitting position means that my TP is mounted further forward than the 460mm specification. This should reduce the load on the TP but limit the maximum rudder angle.

I don't use it a lot but it is certainly great when motoring or if single handed.

I tend to have the boat set up for a fairly heavy helm when hard on the wind but it seems to be able to cope with that OK.

I haven't found the autotack that useful, but maybe I need to persist a bit more. The autotack can be 'cheated' a bit by hitting either + or - 10 before asking for the 100 deg tack to customise it to your preference. My TP is alarming that it is off course long before the boat gets on to the new tack but that could just be my boat / set up.

Looking at the specs, the 2000 has the 'better' mechanism of recirculating ball and a faster travel time. Does it have a more powerful drive motor? The specs quote the same current but surely an almost 40% increase in thrust at almost 100% faster can't all be down to a more efficient mechanism. Does the improvement justify an extra £100 or 25%? I don't think that the increased speed is worthwhile, but an improved mechanism might be, and a more powerful motor certainly would be.

What does the 2000 do when it reaches the end of its stroke and the boat is still off course? Mine sits and 'bumps' which doesn't seem right to a mechanical ear. I can't remember if it stops trying when it alarms. I usually ask the TP to change course by a maximum of 40 degs at a time so it all happens within the constraints of the stroke.

It's easy when it's not my money, but I think that I would go for the bigger 2000 model for the Centaur.

Ash

[Pete Cooper]

When I had a problem with my Autohelm I made enquiries and found a guy up North, ProDave, who mends them cheaply - he posts on TOP. Fortunately I didn't need his services as I had got my polarity wrong - I reversed the wires and normal service was resumed.

[aquaplane]

When I had a problem with my Autohelm I made enquiries and found a guy up North, ProDave, who mends them cheaply - he posts on TOP. Fortunately I didn't need his services as I had got my polarity wrong - I reversed the wires and normal service was resumed.

It's easy done with them 3 phase motors Pete

[aquaplane]

The 'Plus' means that it can be controlled via NMEA or Seatalk - I not sure if you can still buy the more basic unit without the 'Plus'.

It's idleness that I missed off the +

Since I got the Garmin talking to the DSC VHF I have had a rush of blood and plan to have the AP included in the NMEA chat

I can't now remember the actual figures, but the compromise in fitting position means that my TP is mounted further forward than the 460mm specification. This should reduce the load on the TP but limit the maximum rudder angle.

I believe that the existing mountings in the cockpit seat and on the tiller will be in the right places for the replacement.

I haven't found the autotack that useful, but maybe I need to persist a bit more. The autotack can be 'cheated' a bit by hitting either + or - 10 before asking for the 100 deg tack to customise it to your preference.

Tack through 100°, in my dreams, it's a Centaur we are talking about.

Does the improvement justify an extra £100 or 25%? I don't think that the increased speed is worthwhile, but an improved mechanism might be, and a more powerful motor certainly would be.

It's easy when it's not my money, but I think that I would go for the bigger 2000 model for the Centaur.

Ash

As David said in his reply, the "capacity on top" is probably worth going for. Even if the 1000 would cope for a while, it may not last.

I had thought of working out some weather proofing, perhaps Pete could let me know where he gets his condoms?

It looks like Chiron is going to be a keeper for a while so I may as well upgrade instead of just making do.

[Pete Cooper]

I had thought of working out some weather proofing, perhaps Pete could let me know where he gets his condoms?

I can't remember - I've had this one for many years now and it doesn't get much use but it seemes to come up well with a 40 degree wash and a spin cycle. Obviously no fabric softener

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Advice given to me on TOP when I asked prior to purchasing a new unit was good.
I ended up buying the ST 2000+.
Definatly a much more powerful beast than the 1000, as the drive mech is different.
Now that I have set it up it works well and can handle SOME of the excessive weather helm experienced on HB.
I use clingfilm as a weather barrier, but am toying with the idea of a lightweight grp top cover with a flexable clear window for the controls.
C_W

[Booby Trapper]

Advice given to me on TOP when I asked prior to purchasing a new unit was good.
I ended up buying the ST 2000+.
Definatly a much more powerful beast than the 1000, as the drive mech is different.
Now that I have set it up it works well and can handle SOME of the excessive weather helm experienced on HB.
I use clingfilm as a weather barrier, but am toying with the idea of a lightweight grp top cover with a flexable clear window for the controls.
C_W

Lorna gets me long clear plastic bags that walking sticks come in, they are a perfect fit for the st2000. They just slip over and cover the arm and body. Usually one lasts a whole season or quite a few months. I'll give you a couple next time I see you.

[aquaplane]

Advice given to me on TOP when I asked prior to purchasing a new unit was good.
I ended up buying the ST 2000+.
Definatly a much more powerful beast than the 1000, as the drive mech is different.
Now that I have set it up it works well and can handle SOME of the excessive weather helm experienced on HB.
I use clingfilm as a weather barrier, but am toying with the idea of a lightweight grp top cover with a flexable clear window for the controls.
C_W

Lorna gets me long clear plastic bags that walking sticks come in, they are a perfect fit for the st2000. They just slip over and cover the arm and body. Usually one lasts a whole season or quite a few months. I'll give you a couple next time I see you.

If I send Erica round can you give her one too?

[ubergeekian]

Advice given to me on TOP when I asked prior to purchasing a new unit was good.
I ended up buying the ST 2000+.
Definatly a much more powerful beast than the 1000, as the drive mech is different.

I think the two main performance issues, thrust and extension rate, really need to be separated, but they're often conflated for simplicity. A fin keeler will generally require a faster extension rate than a long keeler of the same length, and a balanced rudder will need less force. Jumblie therefore needs a tiller pilot that can push hard without necessarily moving very fast, while a modern boat of the same length would require a tiller pilot that could move fast without necessarily pushing very hard.

Conclusion: read the full specs, and, erm, ask on forums for advice. Bob, have you tried the WOA?

[aquaplane]

Bob, have you tried the WOA?

I asked here first.
The Westerly bods seems to have loadsa dosh and are generally in the "it cost lots so it's the best", or "I have to spend lots because it's safety and anyone on a budget will die a horrible death instanly, and kill all their sweet inocent children too" camp.
The Yahoo Group will be able to sail a straight course for hours with a bit of string and 2 elastic bands.
Perhaps I exagerate, a little.
And then there is Searush of course.

I may ask there to see what they say.

[Booby Trapper]

If I send Erica round can you give her one too?

Oh you are awful

[ubergeekian]

The Westerly bods seems to have loadsa dosh and are generally in the "it cost lots so it's the best", or "I have to spend lots because it's safety and anyone on a budget will die a horrible death instanly, and kill all their sweet inocent children too" camp.

That may be true of the owners of later Westerlies, but the impression I got as a member was that the older (Laurent Giles era) Westerlies are owned by amiable cheapskates.

[ash]

If I send Erica round can you give her one too?

Oh you are awful

I like the way that you've shuffled the quotes so that it looks as though C_W said it!

I was going to ask if I could have a TP condom too but Bob set such a high price that I chickened out.

Ash

Edit - OK just found that you can only embed 3 quotes - Has Nick been turning down the wick on the server?