Which dinghy for my nephew

[Julian]

My sister has decided to encourage my nephew's new found desire to take up boating. He's 9 and never been on a boat before, I presume he has been hearing about his uncle J and of our family past in the fishing and basically making a living working at sea background.

I have promised to take him out next season as she asked way to late this year and we had already began to winterise the boat.

But she also wishes to buy a dinghy, she had in mind a mirror which is a sound boat as long as they all go sailing together, but too big I think for a lone 9 year old after the novelty wears off for his parents, which it will, long before his I suspect. He has a habit, even at 9 to see things through, quite an impressive young lad actually, I disagree with his self imposed vegetarianism from the age of 6, but respect him for sticking to it.

My sister is close to the marine lake at West Kirby a fine sailing lake with plenty of supervision and if they join the club any dinghy can be left in the compound ready for launching by hand...

So a smaller dinghy, like a topper, but he has never sailed, I don't fancy wading out to get him from the centre of the lake when he forgets the methods to sail up wind etc. Can an adult get into a topper (my sister can sail, she used to be quite good at it). Would a laser be too big for him to sail alone?

Budget is not exhaustive, especially as they will probably only keep a couple of years until his next growth spurt.

There is my niece too, she is approaching teenage, a bit of a glum goth, but no doubt wont want to be left out, so a boat that he can handle but take her along at least the few times before she deems it uncool.

There is a 14ft (ish) limit on the lake, but I don't see that as a problem just yet.

I saw a film on the news a little while back, possible talking about future olympic sailors who were sailing into the surf in little pram dinghies with what looked like a junk rig (deffo not herons), they looked the business and easy to rig, any guesses what I might have seen, about (at a guess) 7-9 ft long...?

[claymore]

Topper would be fine as would an optimist
Both low maintenance and both have brought thousands into sailing

[aquaplane]

Could the Junk rig looking things be optimists, the way the stripes go in some of the sails may give that impression?

I'm not really into dingy sailing clubs but the West Kirby Club website looks like it's a well set up club.

http://www.wksc.net/boatsforsale/

4 boats for sale, 2x GP14, a Laser and an Optimist.

It may be best to go along and see which classes are popular at the club and if there are any more for sale.

They do training too, that must be worth looking into.

A Topper may be best.
I generally think of Optimists being sailed by really young kids but that's only an impression.
A Laser is quite a powerful boat and may suit an older teenager with a bit more weight better, a good boat though.
Some of the more modern hulls have different rigs for devloping sailors, I suspect that they damage the wallet significantly.

HTH

[jim.r]

I'd avoid a laser at the moment, an oppie woulod be ideal to get started.

[Mark]

My sister has decided to encourage my nephew's new found desire to take up boating. He's 9 and never been on a boat before, I presume he has been hearing about his uncle J and of our family past in the fishing and basically making a living working at sea background.

I have promised to take him out next season as she asked way to late this year and we had already began to winterise the boat.

But she also wishes to buy a dinghy, she had in mind a mirror which is a sound boat as long as they all go sailing together, but too big I think for a lone 9 year old after the novelty wears off for his parents, which it will, long before his I suspect. He has a habit, even at 9 to see things through, quite an impressive young lad actually, I disagree with his self imposed vegetarianism from the age of 6, but respect him for sticking to it.

My sister is close to the marine lake at West Kirby a fine sailing lake with plenty of supervision and if they join the club any dinghy can be left in the compound ready for launching by hand...

So a smaller dinghy, like a topper, but he has never sailed, I don't fancy wading out to get him from the centre of the lake when he forgets the methods to sail up wind etc. Can an adult get into a topper (my sister can sail, she used to be quite good at it). Would a laser be too big for him to sail alone?

I started sailing in a Griffin from about 4 years old, but by 9 my brother and I were racing a Mirror and had no problems at all. However there were two of us. Given there's only one of you Nephew I think a topper would make more sense. He could certainly sail a topper two up with an adult but I doubt he would want to for long, if at all.

Don't buy an optimist, just utterly pointless boats. In my view a responsive boat is a far better teacher than a pedestrian embarrassing barge. Also the fleets are full of rich kids. I made a similar mistake buying a 'Fly' dinghy which is a similar low performance **** heap for newbies and had a miserable year before selling it to get a Laser. (Although I was older then 9 buy then.)

My recollection is I always regretted not moving up to a faster boat sooner IYSWIM. I never thought I had an overpowered boat ever, same with my friends. So I'd be really thinking if there was any way a 9 year old could manage a Laser as "learner boat" and bypass the Topper. My gut feeling is it might be too much but might be worth a punt and obviously would be fine in lighter stuff which we are so often cursed with. (Also consider that a lighter crew will always be faster so a 9 year old in a Laser racing against adults will win race after race in any conditions that he can keep it upright in. My bro and I picked up a ton of silverware in the early days due to that and it was a real moral booster, maybe your Nephew is as shallow as we were and will also be grateful for a boat that's a bit overpowered for him.)

Certainly, you should be far more wary of getting something that's too little of a handful rather than getting too much IMHO.

So, assuming the Laser is ruled out, I'd say Topper as boat No1 is a good call. Cheap, rugged and not unbearably[/b] dull. (Also consider Lightening 368, Comet which are easy to sail and cheap - indeed the Lightening has a great deal of sail control which might as well be picked up early.) I know little about modern boats so there might be something even better these days, but I'd guess that, even today, nothing would beat the Topper for price and ruggedness.

If he's like my brother and I, he'll need something something faster ASAP and I'm gutted to say in this day and age it wouldn't be the Laser. The Laser is pretty dull by modern standards even for a newbie. I've sailed a Vario and (on the water) that's a better single hander for a newbie than a Laser with the added interest of a kite. Probably a handful for a 9 year old, but not for a 13yo. I've also sailed most of the RS fleet and every day bog standard boats these days would thrash the exotica of yesteryear for less cash outlay and less effort. (I was sailing an RS400 last summer. It was screaming along with most of the boat lifted out by the kite, probably as fast as I'd ever been in a monohull - but it was effortless. Totally stable. Incredible.)

None of that really matters 'cos after half a season racing a Topper or somesuch I reckon he'll know exactly what he wants to move on to and it will be dictated by all sorts of factors like what other people are sailing locally as well as sheer thrill factors.

Sorry for the essay but I really envy him his adventure and want to vicariously join in as best I can.

[claymore]

I'm sure Ben Ainslie would be interested to read that the Optimist is a pointless boat
As would all the other National, world and Olympic champions who learned their skills in one.

Just go to west Kirby and introduce the children, the club will sort them out with no need to buy initially. They have their own fleets which they use for beginners and people who don't have their own boat.
Ask for Mr Dransfield and pm me if you need further assistance.

[Mark]

I'm sure Ben Ainslie would be interested to read that the Optimist is a pointless boat
As would all the other National, world and Olympic champions who learned their skills in one.

I can only talk about my experience when I was going through the same stage Julian's Nephew is at, I thought they were dreadful boats as did all of my friends.

Did you sail an oppie for any length of time as a kid, Claymore? If not what did you sail, and why not an Oppie? Have you ever sailed an Oppie?

Ben Ainslie currently sails a Finn. Are you going to suggest a Fin is anything other than a dull underpowered heavy barge? He's also sailed Lasers which are dishwater dull by modern standards. (And I've owned and loved 3 of them!)

I'm really not convinced by the argument of "Ben Ainslie sails some s**t boats, therefore s**t boats are not s**t"". Not least, because he doesn't choose his boats on the basis of sailing excitement or even potential for improvement as a sailor.

Perhaps the fact that adults can't agree about this shows that this lad needs to sail as large a selection of boats as possible as quickly as possible and make his own choice. (And if he thrashes an Oppie around for an hour and comes back grinning and desperate to own one I'll eat my wetboots.)

I feel surprisingly strongly about this.

[claymore]

When I worked for the RYA I coached and managed the uk and welsh national teams.
I think I know enough about oppies - thanks.

[Mark]

When I worked for the RYA I coached and managed the uk and welsh national teams.
I think I know enough about oppies - thanks.

Which isn't the same as saying "Oppies are great, when I was 9 I found them a thrilling sail and an Oppie will give Julian's nephew the time of his life and get him hooked on sailing.".

When I was 9 I thought Oppies were a godawful boat. All of my contemporaries thought the same. I suspect if Claymore had been screaming around in an Oppy with a big grin on his face aged nine he would have said so, which suggests to me that his own enthusiasm for Oppies wasn't exactly overwhelming when he was where Julian's nephew is today.

Admittedly, it wasn't an Oppy, but I have bought a boat devoid of challenge that sailed off the same handicap as an oppy and I hated it - it was a wasted season. I would hate for this lad to make the same mistake.

I think the fact that grown ups can't agree about what boats they liked as kids shows all kids (and adults) are different and it's important for the OP to try a few boats and make the decision for himself.

[claymore]

Fine
You are of course, absolutely correct
Have a good life

[jim.r]

Hmmmmmmm .. our 3 girls all found the oppies rather spiffing .. as did I when planing in one in 40+ knots of wind at the age of 47

Marvellous little boats .. and I have raced Lasers, GP 14s etc to even consider a Laser as a starter boat (even with radial rig) for a 9yo unless he's a very big lad (like 6'3" and 10stone) for his age is just nuts!

[Mark]

Fine
You are of course, absolutely correct
Have a good life

Likewise, I wish you a great Christmas and a superb life.

It will be interesting to see what boat Julian's Nephew takes to, and what he thinks of it.

[Mark]

Hmmmmmmm .. our 3 girls all found the oppies rather spiffing .. as did I when planing in one in 40+ knots of wind at the age of 47

A boat for girls and old men then! What were you sailing when you were 9? There seems to be rather a lot of "Oppies are great, but only for other people" going on in this thread.

Marvellous little boats .. and I have raced Lasers, GP 14s etc to even consider a Laser as a starter boat (even with radial rig) for a 9yo unless he's a very big lad (like 6'3" and 10stone) for his age is just nuts!

Probably not suitable for many 9 year olds and wouldn't have been suitable for me at 9. Even inland. I got my first Laser when I was 12 or 13 and I didn't have the slightest problem with it, I could easily have sailed it a year earlier and bitterly regret that I didn't. Having said that at 9 I was very happy with the Mirror which was fun enough if there was a bit of wind and competitive enough with so little weight in it when there wasn't.

Maybe we need a sweep stake on what the lad ends up with. I'm betting on Topper. Cheap, sturdy, responsive & fun when there's wind.

[Julian]

It seems that a Topper or optimist should be short listed. I appreciate Marks views but my nephew isn't a strapping 9 year old, but neither is he a bag of wind. My own feeling is that he would struggle alone with a laser, especially if he puts it on it's side.

We had a GP14 as a family which we sailed at West Kirby when I was a bit younger than my nephew. It was great sailing as a family, but my dad's work commitments meant we rarely got to sail her and she was too big for me or my sister alone. This is why I am pushing for a boat that is for him alone, otherwise I foresee history playing out.

Going to the club is definitely on the cards, I am a little out of it, but know many of the faces down there still, in fact a couple of them are on my facebook list.

Interestingly, last time I was walking through the compound I noted they are sailing a new class (to me) a small deep keeled dinghy, very narrow, sleek... don't look cheap lol. I was thinking they must be perfect on the lake as it keeps it's depth right up to the edges.

Isn't there more to dinghy sailing than racing, I never enjoyed dinghy or yacht racing at all, not even as a kid.

[Mark]

It seems that a Topper or optimist should be short listed. I appreciate Marks views but my nephew isn't a strapping 9 year old, but neither is he a bag of wind. My own feeling is that he would struggle alone with a laser, especially if he puts it on it's side.

No problem at all. What suited me at 9 won't suit every lad.

Isn't there more to dinghy sailing than racing, I never enjoyed dinghy or yacht racing at all, not even as a kid.

Rightly or wrongly, in my experience inland dinghy sailing is almost exclusively racing related. Can't say I enjoy yacht racing unless there's a decent passage involved. I mean, would you do the BTCC in camper vans?