I've been reading Ted Osborn's excellent article, in the the latest Cruising Association magazine, on the shipwreck of St Paul on Malta, in AD58 or 59.
Bearing in mind that this particular vessel was probably well over 1,000 tons, had a cargo of wheat and 276 people on board, I was very disturbed to read that their anchors were shaped stones, possibly bundled into wicker cages.
Were better anchors available at that time? Any recommendations?
St Paul: which anchor?
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Silkie
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St. Paul was bit of a traditionalist AFAIK and probably used the Noah Anchor. However even Noah thought it was rubbish and used to carry twelve of them apparently.
different colours made of tears
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DaveS
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Noah
Well, that site wasted a guid hour or more. (An no a mention of threeha'apence a foot...) Ah dinna think the septics have got much o a sense o humour...Silkie wrote:St. Paul was bit of a traditionalist AFAIK and probably used the Noah Anchor. However even Noah thought it was rubbish and used to carry twelve of them apparently.
I'm not certain I've correctly picked up all the "facts" (or maybe, better, "factoids"), but quite apart from awkward questions like, "so where did all the flood water go, then?" it would appear that Noah stayed at anchor for several weeks in a depth of > 1000m - with a dozen or so anchor cables! Now, not wanting to start an anchoring debate, but I would have thought that, even at 3:1 scope, accommodating the necessary volume of rope would make keeping a couple of elephants pale into insignificance...
But what do I know? I'm probably one of the "evolutionist scientists" railed against!
Incidentally, I loved the casual inclusion of the sedimentary rock description with its implicit assumption of being laid down millions of years ago!
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DaveS
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Noah, etc.
Oh, I recommend it...
Damned if I see why I should be alone in wasting time.
Some bits are quite interesting and thought provoking, but there's a lot of fundamentalist bullshit.
Alll the same, quite interesting(ish).
Damned if I see why I should be alone in wasting time.
Some bits are quite interesting and thought provoking, but there's a lot of fundamentalist bullshit.
Alll the same, quite interesting(ish).
As a special treat-
I'll tell you an old-fashioned story That Grandfather used to relate,
Of a Joiner and building contractor; 'Is name, it were Sam Oglethwaite.
In a shop on the banks of the Irwell, Old Sam used to follow 'is trade,
In a place you'll have 'eard of, called Bury ; You know, where black puddings is made.
One day, Sam were filling a knot 'ole Wi' putty, when in thro' the door
Came an old feller fair wreathed i ' whiskers; T'ould chap said "Good morning, I'm Noah."
Sam asked Noah what was 'is business, And t'ould chap went on to remark,
That not liking the look of the weather, 'E were thinking of building an Ark.
'E'd gotten the wood for the bulwarks, And all t'other shipbuilding junk,
And wanted some nice Bird's Eye Maple To panel the side of 'is bunk.
Now Maple were Sam's Mon-o-po-ly ; That means it were all 'is to cut,
And nobody else 'adn't got none ; So 'e asked Noah three ha'pence a foot.
" A ha'penny too much," replied Noah. " Penny a foot's more the mark ;
A penny a foot, and when rain comes, I'll give you a ride in me Ark."
But neither would budge in the bargain ; The whole daft thing were kind of a jam,
So Sam put 'is tongue out at Noah, And Noah made " Long Bacon '' at Sam.
In wrath and ill-feeling they parted, Not knowing when they'd meet again,
And Sam had forgot all about it, 'Til one day it started to rain.
It rained and it rained for a fortni't, And flooded the 'ole countryside.
It rained and it kep' on raining, 'Til the Irwell were fifty miles wide.
The 'ouses were soon under water, And folks to the roof 'ad to climb.
They said 'twas the rottenest summer That Bury 'ad 'ad for some time.
The rain showed no sign of abating, And water rose hour by hour,
'Til the only dry land were at Blackpool. And that were on top of the Tower.
So Sam started swimming to Blackpool; It took 'im best part of a week.
'Is clothes were wet through when 'e got there, And 'is boots were beginning to leak.
'E stood to 'is watch-chain in water, On Tower top, just before dark,
When who should come sailing towards 'im But old Noah, steering 'is Ark.
Noah said "Nay ; I'll make thee an offer, The same as I did t'other day.
A penny a foot and a free ride. Now, come on, lad, what does tha say ? "
" Three ha'pence a foot," came the answer. So Noah 'is sail 'ad to hoist,
And sailed off again in a dudgeon, While Sam stood determined, but moist.
Noah cruised around, flying 'is pigeons, 'Til fortieth day of the wet,
And on 'is way back, passing Blackpool, 'E saw old Sam standing there yet.
'Is chin just stuck out of the water ; A comical figure 'e cut.
Noah said : " Now what's the price of yer Maple ? " Sam answered :" Three ha'pence a foot."
Said Noah : " Ye'd best take my offer ; It's last time I'll be hereabout ;
And if water comes half an inch higher, I'll happen get Maple for nought."
They stared at each other in silence, 'Til Ark were alongside, all but,
Then Noah said: " What price yer Maple ? " Sam answered : " Three ha'pence a foot."
" Three ha'pence a foot it'll cost yer, And as fer me," Sam said, " don't fret.
The sky's took a turn since this morning; I think it'll brighten up yet."
I'll tell you an old-fashioned story That Grandfather used to relate,
Of a Joiner and building contractor; 'Is name, it were Sam Oglethwaite.
In a shop on the banks of the Irwell, Old Sam used to follow 'is trade,
In a place you'll have 'eard of, called Bury ; You know, where black puddings is made.
One day, Sam were filling a knot 'ole Wi' putty, when in thro' the door
Came an old feller fair wreathed i ' whiskers; T'ould chap said "Good morning, I'm Noah."
Sam asked Noah what was 'is business, And t'ould chap went on to remark,
That not liking the look of the weather, 'E were thinking of building an Ark.
'E'd gotten the wood for the bulwarks, And all t'other shipbuilding junk,
And wanted some nice Bird's Eye Maple To panel the side of 'is bunk.
Now Maple were Sam's Mon-o-po-ly ; That means it were all 'is to cut,
And nobody else 'adn't got none ; So 'e asked Noah three ha'pence a foot.
" A ha'penny too much," replied Noah. " Penny a foot's more the mark ;
A penny a foot, and when rain comes, I'll give you a ride in me Ark."
But neither would budge in the bargain ; The whole daft thing were kind of a jam,
So Sam put 'is tongue out at Noah, And Noah made " Long Bacon '' at Sam.
In wrath and ill-feeling they parted, Not knowing when they'd meet again,
And Sam had forgot all about it, 'Til one day it started to rain.
It rained and it rained for a fortni't, And flooded the 'ole countryside.
It rained and it kep' on raining, 'Til the Irwell were fifty miles wide.
The 'ouses were soon under water, And folks to the roof 'ad to climb.
They said 'twas the rottenest summer That Bury 'ad 'ad for some time.
The rain showed no sign of abating, And water rose hour by hour,
'Til the only dry land were at Blackpool. And that were on top of the Tower.
So Sam started swimming to Blackpool; It took 'im best part of a week.
'Is clothes were wet through when 'e got there, And 'is boots were beginning to leak.
'E stood to 'is watch-chain in water, On Tower top, just before dark,
When who should come sailing towards 'im But old Noah, steering 'is Ark.
Noah said "Nay ; I'll make thee an offer, The same as I did t'other day.
A penny a foot and a free ride. Now, come on, lad, what does tha say ? "
" Three ha'pence a foot," came the answer. So Noah 'is sail 'ad to hoist,
And sailed off again in a dudgeon, While Sam stood determined, but moist.
Noah cruised around, flying 'is pigeons, 'Til fortieth day of the wet,
And on 'is way back, passing Blackpool, 'E saw old Sam standing there yet.
'Is chin just stuck out of the water ; A comical figure 'e cut.
Noah said : " Now what's the price of yer Maple ? " Sam answered :" Three ha'pence a foot."
Said Noah : " Ye'd best take my offer ; It's last time I'll be hereabout ;
And if water comes half an inch higher, I'll happen get Maple for nought."
They stared at each other in silence, 'Til Ark were alongside, all but,
Then Noah said: " What price yer Maple ? " Sam answered : " Three ha'pence a foot."
" Three ha'pence a foot it'll cost yer, And as fer me," Sam said, " don't fret.
The sky's took a turn since this morning; I think it'll brighten up yet."
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oldgaffer1
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Re: Noah, etc.
'specially the bit where they tell us about '...Arz meaning earth or land...' I am sure that we can all therefore agree that they are probably talking through their earth.DaveS wrote: Some bits are quite interesting and thought provoking
Cheers,
Alister.
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DaveS
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Three ha'pence a foot
Absolutely. Another classic Stanley Holloway monologue. (I've an LP with most of them on it somewhere... in one of the many post-flitting boxeschakalo wrote:OP, was that the same poet who wrote about Albert at the zoo being eaten by a lion? It has a similar ring to it. excellent..
)I fear that the fundamentalist Christian yanks either haven't heard it, or basically don't approve of humour applied to biblical topics. A po faced lot, to sweepingly generalise (and split infinitives).
My Ex boss (and a good friend) could, after a pint or several recite all these, never met anyone with a memory like he had.
So
Specially for you Dave:-
There's a famous seaside place called Blackpool, That's noted for fresh air and fun,
And Mr. and Mrs. Ramsbottom , Went there with young Albert, their son.
A grand little lad was young Albert, All dressed in his best;quite a swell,
With a stick with an 'orse's 'ead 'andle, The finest that Woolworth's could sell.
They didn't think much to the Ocean: The waves, they was fiddlin' and small,
There was no wrecks and nobody drownded, Fact, nothing to laugh at at all.
So, seeking for further amusement, They paid and went into the Zoo,
Where they'd Lions and Tigers and Camels, And old ale and sandwiches too.
There were one great big Lion called Wallace; His nose were all covered with scars,
He lay in a somnolent posture, With the side of his face on the bars.
Now Albert had heard about Lions, How they was ferocious and wild,
To see Wallace lying so peaceful, Well, it didn't seem right to the child.
So straightway the brave little feller, Not showing a morsel of fear,
Took his stick with its 'orses 'ead 'andle And pushed it in Wallace's ear.
You could see that the Lion didn't like it, For giving a kind of a roll,
He pulled Albert inside the cage with 'im, And swallowed the little lad 'ole.
Then Pa, who had seen the occurrence, And didn't know what to do next,
Said " Mother! Yon Lion's 'et Albert," And Mother said " Well, I am vexed!"
Then Mr. and Mrs. Rarnsbottom, Quite rightly, when all's said and done,
Complained to the Animal Keeper, That the Lion had eaten their son.
The keeper was quite nice about it; He said " What a nasty mishap.
Are you sure that it's your boy he's eaten ? " Pa said "Am I sure ? There's his cap! "
The manager had to be sent for. He came and he said " What's to do ? "
Pa said " Yon Lion's 'et Albert, And 'im in his Sunday clothes, too."
Then Mother said, " Right's right, young feller; I think it's a shame and a sin,
For a lion to go and eat Albert, And after we've paid to come in."
Then off they went to the Police Station, In front of the Magistrate chap;
They told 'im what happened to Albert, And proved it by showing his cap.
The manager wanted no trouble, He took out his purse right away,
Saying " How much to settle the matter ? " And Pa said " What do you usually pay?"
But Mother had turned a bit awkward, When she thought where her Albert had gone.
She said " No ! someone's got to be summonsed", So that was decided upon.
The Magistrate gave his opinion That no one was really to blame,
And he said that he hoped the Ramsbottoms , Would have further sons to their name.
At that Mother got proper blazing, " And thank you, sir, kindly," said she.
" What, waste all our lives raising children, To feed ruddy Lions? Not me!"
So
Specially for you Dave:-
There's a famous seaside place called Blackpool, That's noted for fresh air and fun,
And Mr. and Mrs. Ramsbottom , Went there with young Albert, their son.
A grand little lad was young Albert, All dressed in his best;quite a swell,
With a stick with an 'orse's 'ead 'andle, The finest that Woolworth's could sell.
They didn't think much to the Ocean: The waves, they was fiddlin' and small,
There was no wrecks and nobody drownded, Fact, nothing to laugh at at all.
So, seeking for further amusement, They paid and went into the Zoo,
Where they'd Lions and Tigers and Camels, And old ale and sandwiches too.
There were one great big Lion called Wallace; His nose were all covered with scars,
He lay in a somnolent posture, With the side of his face on the bars.
Now Albert had heard about Lions, How they was ferocious and wild,
To see Wallace lying so peaceful, Well, it didn't seem right to the child.
So straightway the brave little feller, Not showing a morsel of fear,
Took his stick with its 'orses 'ead 'andle And pushed it in Wallace's ear.
You could see that the Lion didn't like it, For giving a kind of a roll,
He pulled Albert inside the cage with 'im, And swallowed the little lad 'ole.
Then Pa, who had seen the occurrence, And didn't know what to do next,
Said " Mother! Yon Lion's 'et Albert," And Mother said " Well, I am vexed!"
Then Mr. and Mrs. Rarnsbottom, Quite rightly, when all's said and done,
Complained to the Animal Keeper, That the Lion had eaten their son.
The keeper was quite nice about it; He said " What a nasty mishap.
Are you sure that it's your boy he's eaten ? " Pa said "Am I sure ? There's his cap! "
The manager had to be sent for. He came and he said " What's to do ? "
Pa said " Yon Lion's 'et Albert, And 'im in his Sunday clothes, too."
Then Mother said, " Right's right, young feller; I think it's a shame and a sin,
For a lion to go and eat Albert, And after we've paid to come in."
Then off they went to the Police Station, In front of the Magistrate chap;
They told 'im what happened to Albert, And proved it by showing his cap.
The manager wanted no trouble, He took out his purse right away,
Saying " How much to settle the matter ? " And Pa said " What do you usually pay?"
But Mother had turned a bit awkward, When she thought where her Albert had gone.
She said " No ! someone's got to be summonsed", So that was decided upon.
The Magistrate gave his opinion That no one was really to blame,
And he said that he hoped the Ramsbottoms , Would have further sons to their name.
At that Mother got proper blazing, " And thank you, sir, kindly," said she.
" What, waste all our lives raising children, To feed ruddy Lions? Not me!"