Head Sail Reefing - Advice sought

[Nick]

.
By the 'lazy end' do you mean the crew?

Once the sail is furled to the required size both ends need to be cleated off. We have the continuous line running through a pulley at the stern wihich is on a bungee so it is easy to cleat both sides off.

[ash]

Ash, I have the Bamar/Jeckyl setup but there was never a tiedown halliard specified, only the standard one with added pulley supplied to keep it clear of the top of the foil.

OK - Further investigation reveals that Bamar have different models of manual furler with quite an overlap between possible fore stay lengths.

The models above CO have 'convential' halyards.

Other Bamar Models

Bill - Where did you get your Bamar system from?

More investigation required - seems a nice system - but need to get an idea of cost.

Ash

[Silkie]

pulley

a pulley

Chentlemen, please! As Ash might say...

This is a SAILING forum.

[ash]

.
By the 'lazy end' do you mean the crew?

I wouldn't dare.....
Have you been overdosing on the 'brave' pills - if you thought that things got hot in the L**n*e, then just wait till she reads this.....

.
We have the continuous line running through a pulley at the stern wihich is on a bungee

So does the bungy provide enough pressure on the 'lazy' end.

I envisage a situation where you need to use two hands - one on each line - one is pulling hard to furl the sail whilst the other is pulling less hard but providing enough friction to prevent the drum spinning inside the line.

Ash

[Nick]

.
We do use two hands - but then you have to use two hands in a hand over hand pull on a conventional single line system. This way you still use a hand over hand motion but each hand is on a different side of the loop. It is actually easier than a conventional furler and much smoother.

[sahona]

Hi Ash, Our Bamar came as part of a front-end package from Jeckyl, so it could be discounted elsewhere.
.
Admiral Slick, it IS a pulley. If it wis a high-rise block I would have said so. I've seen nicer ones on the kitchen ceiling (and the one I'm thinking of was on an otherwise nice W/discus) .

[Silkie]

The provenance of your pulley is of no consequence but if you take it aboard it's a block or a sheave, surely?

[ash]

pulley

a pulley

Chentlemen, please! As Ash might say...

This is a SAILING forum.

I couldn’t see where this was going till…….

The provenance of your pulley is of no consequence but if you take it aboard it's a block or a sheave, surely?

Actually, Bamar call Sahona’s beastie a Halyard Swinging Block

Ash

BTW – Is it Halyard or Halliard or either

My mam had a pulley in the kitchen - The skill was in keeping the device level when hoisting or the washing all bunched up at one end.

[ash]

.It is on a Sailspar continuous line reefing system which I initially thought we would change, but once we got used to using it we have never looked back - it works really well. The huge advantage is that it is impossible to get a foul-up on the drum. I suspect that new it is much more expensive than (eg) a conventional Plastimo system, but why not ask for a quote online and report back to us?

Well, I filled in the form yesterday afternoon and got a reply email first thing this morning with prices and PDFs of the fitting instructions so that was an excellent start, especially when you consider that firms are probably busy exhibiting at the boat show.

For info, quote from the email as follows

Good morning and thank you for your email. The 95-25-105 system would
be suitable for your Albin Vega and a complete system including a new
5mm forestay, spliced furling line and 3 Barton lead blocks retails at
£664.00 ex works ex VAT. We are giving 10% discount on all orders
received before 17th January 2010. To send by carrier to Scotland will
be £35.00 + VAT unless you live in the Grampians or Highlands and then
there will be an additional £20.00 + VAT supplement. I attach fitting
instructions for you.
Should you wish to place an order I will need to know what fitting needs
to be at the top of your new forestay (eye or fork) and how long you
would like to have the furling line spliced.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any queries or if I can
be of further assistance.

Ash

[Arghiro]

(snip)

FWIW, I fitted a Plastimo 608 on my Westerly 25............

When I bought my Pentland I did the same, this time with a 910.

How much better is the bigger unit? It seems to have different bearings and a bigger capacity drum.

Plastimo quote the 608 for the Vega. I haven't measured the forestay yet, but I would like to maximise the length of foil. I think that I might need to add a section of foil to the 608 or throw away a bit on the 910.

Is the bigger unit worth an extra 15% to 30% to do the same job?

Thanks for everyone’s help so far – keep it coming. I’ll continue investigating further. The usual boaty problem of spiralling expenditure applies – better to fit the stronger stem head fitting from VAGB whilst I’m at it, etc.

I don't think that the 130% genoa and the jib are worth spending much money on, but I would like to be able to use the 150% genoa. It will depend whether the luff will fit the foil - time to get my 30M tape out and do some measuring.
Cheers
Ash

Plastimo's naming scheme works like this; 406 for 4-6m boats, 608 for 6-8m boats, 910 for 9-10m boats. etc. So the larger size is designed to take a bigger sail. My Pentland is over 10 m (just) but has a smaller genny due to the shorter mainmast as it is a ketch. Use sensible judgement, if your boat is 3/4 rigged, you can use a smaller gear.

[ash]

I sent Jeckells an email o the 14th

Dear Sirs

I am making initial enquiries into replacing the hanked on headsails and forestay on my Albin Vega with a roller reefing system and 130% genoa with foam on the luff.

The boat would be used for cruising and need not conform to the Vega Class Rules.

The sail material and construction should tend towards a quality cruising product rather than an economy product - Marblehead Woven Dacron or similar.

I am sure that you will have dimensions for the Vega on file but the approximate overall details as per your form would be

1) 8.1 M
2) 9.75M
3) 2.0 M
4) 3.1 M
5) 5.2 M

I would be grateful if you would provide your recommendation on specification and costs for a sail, and if possible a furling system and forestay.

And received this reply on the 19th

Please accept my apologies for the delay in our reply.

The material I would recommend is Marblehead which is the tightest woven Dacron avaliable today.

Performance Cruising specification:

Sails laser cut and finished in our loft in Wroxham
Glued seams prior to sewing
Three step zig zag stitching on all seams using a UV Chafe and abrasion resistant braided thread
Graduated re-enforcing to all corners, reefs etc for great load distribution and strength.
Each sail hand finished and individually inspected prior to despatch
5 Year Guarantee

Reefing Genoa to Performance Cruising Specification (as above) with the following:

Molybdenum Stainless Steel clew cringle
Webbing eyes at head and tack to facilitate smoother furling
Leech line
Sacrificial strip to leech and foot.
Reefing indicators
Tell tales
Bolt rope to suit your reefing system

The reefing system I would recommend is the Bamar system which also comes with a 5 year gurantee.

The cost of the sails are:

Reefing Genoa £675.42 If ordered before the end of January the price will be £607.88
Bamar Reefing system £734.93
Forstay £117.50

Delivery to UK mainland, including insurance £22.00

All prices include VAT at 17.5%

If you wish to place the order we take 1/3 as a deposit and the balance on final dispatch. This can be paid with either credit card over the phone or by cheque in the post.

I hope you find this of interest and if you would like to discuss this further do call us - we would like to hear from you.

Best Regards

Investigations are ongoing

Ash

[ash]

My apologies for dragging up an old thread, but I thought that I should add this info for the benefit of future searches.

Back on the 15 January I sent the following email to Bamar

Dear Sirs

I wish to obtain costs for some of your Manual Foresail Reefing and Furling Systems.

My forestay is approx 9.5M x 5mm, so it would appear that 3 of your models are suitable.

Costs required for

Model CO with 6 middle foils
Model COT with 6 middle foils
Model C1 with 6 middle foils

Delivery would be to Glasgow, Scotland.

Would I order from you direct, or do I need to deal with a local agent?

On 9 February, I received the following reply

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning a manual foresail reefing and furling system to suit your Albin Vega. The attached quotation covers costs for all 3 systems requested including their furling lines and an additional special pin which holds the link plates of the furling unit either side of the toggle on your forestay. Bamar Furling systems are extremely well engineered and have been around for quite some years unchanged. The distinctive thing about the Bamar Furler is that the boats present forestay, complete with its turnbuckle is able to remain within this system, and therefore the turnbuckle itself or the system bearings are not under increased furling load. Albin Vega specifications suggest that the most suitable system for your yacht will be the COT model for a stay up to 10.5meters. Based on approximate calculations the CO system is generally for yachts up to 26feet and model C1 for 29 to 35foot yachts. The foil sections are made from anodised aluminium and have an oval, aero dynamic profile which offers the term high performance. Each extrusion is interlinked together with an aluminium splice piece and a Delrin plastic insert which bears on the forestay. The system is simple to cut and comes complete with its own installation Manual.

Our terms of business are 50% deposit, balance prior to despatch and you will need to allow 3 to 4 weeks to obtain the goods here in the UK. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us, in the mean time I hope you find our quotation acceptable.

Quote was as follows

Ash

[sahona]

The provenance of your pulley is of no consequence but if you take it aboard it's a block or a sheave, surely?

This smacks of quantum wheel science. Can a block or sheave exist ashore, or do they have to be created in a hadron collider, and only exist for an instant before deteriorating (your inference) into pulleys?
Sorry for waking the dead, back to sleep.

[DaveS]

From another who is happy to pursue auld threads:

My mam had a pulley in the kitchen - The skill was in keeping the device level when hoisting or the washing all bunched up at one end.

We currently have a pulley in our scullery (a term which, insisted on rather than "utility room", made the man quoting for a new kitchen wince!), and when I re-strung it using boat rope from Duncan's rather than string I overcame this problem by judiciously tying the ropes together. Level hoisting is thus automatically achieved.

[marisca]

A pulley rope without a knot? What is the world coming to? How else does it stay level and automatically prevented from descending too far?

But is the cleat-like device that the rope gets hooked on called a "cleat"?