Should a Visitors Mooring have a pickup?

elsa · Post by **elsa** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:13 am

Hello,
Our boat club (Carrick Castle, Loch Goil) is about to get a visitors mooring laid. It'd be great to know what the general feeling as to whether or not visitor moorings should have a pickup. There are mixed views at our end so please help up decide.
Thanks!

cpedw · Post by **cpedw** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:25 am

It's an interesting topic and I found the appoach taken by HIDB when they ran moorings here and there to be sensible: no pickup, just a big galvanised shackle for you to attach whatever you chose onto. Their logic was that you supply and use something that suits your boat and, since it gets a lot of (ab)use by Joe Public, both washed and unwashed, it would be very prone to damage.
On the other hand, all the visitors' moorings I encounter now have a pickup attached so everyone expects there to be something and gets upset and flustered when they find that they are expected to supply something.
So logic demands no but satisfying popular expectations says yes. I hope that clarifies the matter!

Derek

sahona · Post by **sahona** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:36 am

I agree with CPEDW, The junk won't fit every boat, and will be abused by some. It will be manky when brought aboard. People will use the pickup buoy handle to take the whole weight when making an arce of arriving.
AND IT WILL SPOIL ALL THE FUN WE HAVE watching the loonies trying to deal with the shackle without a happy hooker. Nothing to recomend it at all unless it's private and tailored to the boat. Roll on the Millport Follies.

elsa · Post by **elsa** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:44 am

Yes, that's something like how the debate is running here. It's a difficult one. We're a small club with limited funds. Fixing a broken pickup as a regular thing is not an appealing prospect .... but the mooring is to attract people to come to lovely Carrick Castle, so we want it to be appealing to all.

What to do?

Does anyone keep visitors moorings with pickups? If so, how often do they actually get broken through misuse?

sahona · Post by **sahona** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:50 am

I was up at Lochgoilhead last summer and heard that Carrick was more or less shut - nae booze nae papers nae nuffin. Previous visits to the castle pub had only annoyed Mr Grumpy. Are you suggesting it has self-healed? or are we supposed to bring the injection of cash needed when we visit?

elsa · Post by **elsa** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:04 am

Ah yes well hmm.... There isn't alot here at the moment right enough .... but there are moves afoot for coffee shop, showers, internet access etc... watch this space. but for now it's a nice place to park up for a peaceful night.

Post by **Nick** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:42 pm

.
Hi, welcome to BlueMoment

It's a bit off topic, but what a spectacular looking boat Elsa is. I'd never heard of a Krogen 38 before. She looks like she would be good offshore, but the ballast ratio is very low - have any Krogens made serious offshore passages?

ParaHandy · Post by **ParaHandy** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:56 pm

Nick wrote:.
have any Krogens made serious offshore passages?

according to his blog, Elsa was sailed to Gib from USA ...

like the stove!?

ljs · Post by **ljs** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:03 pm

Nick wrote:.
I'd never heard of a Krogen 38 before. She looks like she would be good offshore, but the ballast ratio is very low - have any Krogens made serious offshore passages?

'Big beam coupled with a hefty (over 30 percent) ballast displacement ratio make the Krogen 38 a very stiff centerboarder. That in turn allows her to carry a big, tall rig for maximum horsepower.'

Comment from a U.S. (I think) sailing mag:
http://www.kadeykrogen.com/articles/pag ... rticle.htm
Although admittedly it doesn't sound very high - similar to many cruising boats tho?

FullCircle · Post by **FullCircle** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:19 pm

yacht-elsa wrote:Hello,
Our boat club (Carrick Castle, Loch Goil) is about to get a visitors mooring laid. It'd be great to know what the general feeling as to whether or not visitor moorings should have a pickup. There are mixed views at our end so please help up decide.
Thanks!

Just my view, but its nice to pick up with the supplied tail, and then decide whether:-
a) you need to put your own lines on
b) you can hoist the buoy out of the water and inspect the riser and gear under it...
and then decide whether to stay or run away.

elsa · Post by **elsa** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:37 pm

Hi, welcome to BlueMoment

It's a bit off topic, but what a spectacular looking boat Elsa is. I'd never heard of a Krogen 38 before. She looks like she would be good offshore, but the ballast ratio is very low - have any Krogens made serious offshore passages?

Thanks Nick! Yes, off topic but hey, it's your forum, & we don't mind. *polishing nails on chest*

As far as we know Elsa is the only Krogen 38 in the UK - Would love to be proved wrong on that - would feel like the Doctor when he realised that the Master was still alive .... or not like that ... hmm, anyway, not surprised you haven't come across one before.

To our knowledge a couple of Krogen 38s have done transatlantics. We've been e-mailed by a couple recently who've done three return trips in theirs, visiting Norway, Ireland/Scotland and the Med from the U.S. They must be pretty happy to have done it more than once. & Elsa is reputed to have done one too, though we have no info about it. (Bernard Muir, if you read this - get in touch. We want to hear about your trip!)

On one of our less interesting evenings we made a spreadsheet comparing stability indexes and capsize risks etc (using some equations we found using LOA, LWL, beam & displacement) for various boat types we liked the look of to compare with Elsa. She pitched in a bit better than Island Packets & Westerly Oceanlord & a bit less good than Van de stadt seal, Cabo Rico Cutter and Nauticat 38. We thought that was an OK place to be.

Anyway - I could talk about Elsa for long and weary, but will stop right there.

Thanks everyone for all the input about moorings - please keep it coming.

Julian · Post by **Julian** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:35 am

FullCircle wrote: Just my view, but its nice to pick up with the supplied tail, and then decide whether:-
a) you need to put your own lines on
b) you can hoist the buoy out of the water and inspect the riser and gear under it...
and then decide whether to stay or run away.

Difficult one, on the one hand, it is nice at night not to be messing around attaching a strop after a long passage.. on the other, I am happier with my pre-built bridle with lovely big stainless shackle that I keep just for this occasion.

I would like a light pick-up line in order to get the buoy to the foredeck to get the strop fitted.... But some idiot would probably leave his boat on the pick-up line...

You may think it should be easier to hold a cat over the buoy while the crew lies on the foredeck and threads the line, but no, holding a cat stationary is difficult with massive blind-spots, as a centre cockpit that takes away bringing the buoy alongside.

How do you abuse a strop? I usually clean them, I have repaired/remade rubbish splices in my time, but never abused one???

Julian · Post by **Julian** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:39 am

yacht-elsa wrote:Hello,
Our boat club (Carrick Castle, Loch Goil) is about to get a visitors mooring laid. It'd be great to know what the general feeling as to whether or not visitor moorings should have a pickup. There are mixed views at our end so please help up decide.
Thanks!

As another thought, rather than a buoy to tie to, let the chain sink and use a rubbish line that will encourage people to keep pulling until they reach chain.

sahona · Post by **sahona** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:15 pm

[

How do you abuse a strop?

What I meant was, if there is any anti-chafe pipe on, it may not match the distance between your stemhead and cleat. Some folks don't add the necessary protection, and it wears prematurely.

Arghiro · Post by **Arghiro** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:14 pm

I'd go for a light line on the pick-up buoy (easy for SWMBO to get hold of) but a substantial length of plain chain to make off on whatever main cleating arrangement each boat has. The chain sinks & holds the pick-up neatly close to the mooring buoy. Users can add their own sound deadening rags etc at the stem fitting if they wish.

This technique is comming on the strongly tidal Menai Straits & works well. The pick-up buoy line is so light (6-8mm is plenty) that even a dinghy sailor, open boat fisherman or MoBo'er would not consider using it for mooring.

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