Marine survey Clyde area

[mr angry]

Has anyone any personal recommendations for a marine surveyor (yacht) on the Clyde and rough ballpark costs for full valuation survey?

[Burst Boiler]

Tom Elder at TEEM was good. He was happy to take follow up questions after purchase, in one case several years later about fixing a small, non-urgent thing that was mentioned in the survey. Cant remember the cost though, sorry.

[solwaycruiser]

I have used Tony at Open Waters Marine Surveyors a couple of times and found him easy to talk to and he was happy for me to be their and discuss any findings. As to costs I think it is size related and probably in the £50 - £60/m.

[Gardenshed]

Mike Hall: shoreoffice@gmail.com

don't know what it'd cost and I believe all surveyors are extremely busy right now as so many boats have been sold this summer

[claymore]

Bob Fleck, the Workshop Manager at Ardfern is retiring in the next few weeks and going back to full time surveying

[wully]

I’d avoid Teem like the plague... anyone that can’t spot two leaking through hulls (with little rusty stained tracks)and detached floor bonding is worse than incompetent.

Apparently it was my fault for not telling him about them before the survey.

[Burst Boiler]

I’d avoid Teem like the plague... anyone that can’t spot two leaking through hulls (with little rusty stained tracks)and detached floor bonding is worse than incompetent.

Apparently it was my fault for not telling him about them before the survey.

This is really valuable feedback - I rated him on customer service type things where he was really responsive. On the technical side, he didn't miss anything but there wasn't really anything non-obvious amiss in my case so it was a simple job. I would have used him again, so good to know that he falls down when there are genuine issues.

[wully]

I’d avoid Teem like the plague... anyone that can’t spot two leaking through hulls (with little rusty stained tracks)and detached floor bonding is worse than incompetent.

Apparently it was my fault for not telling him about them before the survey.

This is really valuable feedback - I rated him on customer service type things where he was really responsive. On the technical side, he didn't miss anything but there wasn't really anything non-obvious amiss in my case so it was a simple job. I would have used him again, so good to know that he falls down when there are genuine issues.

Some people seem to rate him but my experience was a shocker. I have no idea of his previous work that would equip him to be a surveyor but in my experience ex boat builders are by far and away the best. Bob Fleck mentioned above would be my choice if I needed a surveyor as I doubt there is anything that can befall a boat that he hasn’t seen.

[BlowingOldBoots]

Murray Cormack Associates, in 2009, did my pre purchase survey. They took moisture readings in the pouring rain on a lift, hold, launch lift out - which you can't use for moisture readings, they missed a degraded coupling that failed and almost put me on a lee shore on the delivery day - I asked for and paid for an engine survey. They sub contracted the survey to another surveyor, who has since retired. However, they did find a few things that were relevant but also missed others. I mentioned the surveyors name once on here and he was robustly defended by one person.

Mike Hall, Shore Office Marine Valuers and Surveyors, Inverkip, performed my 10 year insurance survey at Kip in 2019. He found a number of defects and was very thorough. I was at the boat when he surveyed but stayed out the way and let him get on with it. Good interaction with me. Did include another survey comments in report, also included my list of upgrades in the report.

Tom Elder, Teem Survey, did a recent coding survey for me. Identified a number of areas to be addressed, found the cause of the dezincing as my 2 year new propellor was now being affected. Good interaction with me. I would state that he was very busy and advised a date that he would be in the area surveying other boats, which would split the travel milage.

I think you need to take ownership of the process and be engaged with the surveyor before, during and after the survey. Mike Hall stated clearly that he did not want me around, but it was my boat so I made sure I was there but stayed off the boat when he was doing his job. I also opened all the lockers and cleared the space for access. I understand that this may not be be possible for a pre purchase survey, but I would still make an effort to be there. I think you also have to be capable of looking at the boat yourself, taking notes and passing these on to the surveyor, obviously pre survey. Tom Elder was very communicative at the pre assessment survey (afloat) and out the water survey. I never had the experience that Wully did.

I have read 2 surveying books, I recommend that you read at least one, so you can understand what they can and cannot determine. Personally I trust very little that is said on forums unless I do my own due diligence to verify stated opinion.

Good surveying books: -

Surveying Yachts and Small Craft, Paul Stevens
Surveying Small Craft, Ian Nicolson

I would use all of these people again. Mike Hall lives in Inverkip, hence he is very much Clyde based.

[BlowingOldBoots]

You need to go to the market for costs. Travel hoist is about £400 for 41’ boat. My 10 year Insurance Survey was just under £500. The coding survey, 2 x parts was £600. My pre purchase survey was too long ago to be relevant but is was £380 back then.

Condition survey, valuation and engine survey are all different things, so be clear in what you want, check what your getting and what is included in the fee. Gas surveys and rigging surveys I have found, can be additional recommendations from the survey i.e. surveyor does not do these. A full Rigging inspection has cost me £150 and £75; former detailed report, later just a letter of satisfactory condition. Gas Inspection has cost me £175 for inspection and minor work, and £600 for inspection and major work; both resulted in Gas Safe certificates.

Hope this helps.

[mr angry]

I contacted Teem Surveys and got a very odd reply saying they were too busy for the foreseeable future...

This is for a yacht I bought last year that came with a poor survey needing loads spent. I have since spent loads and carried out many upgrades and repairs addressing the points raised in the survey. I bought a copy of someone elses survey who was considering purchasing her at the time.

I have just renewed insurance and a little concerned she is under insured as she is only insured for original purchase price which was well below market value.

As you can imagine I am not looking for the most critical surveyor in this situation but i guess they are probably all pretty similar.

[claymore]

Aha - the old "blind surveyor" routine is it?

[BlowingOldBoots]

... I have since spent loads and carried out many upgrades and repairs addressing the points raised in the survey. ... I have just renewed insurance and a little concerned she is under insured as she is only insured for original purchase price which was well below market value.

Your situation is similar to my own, old boat, fully refurbished, wanting to insure for what I perceive to be a reasonable value. A couple of observations from my experience and similar comments from other forums: -

Insurers know what a yacht is worth, risks and probabilities of payout. You may have a value in mind that will not match their opinion. Receipted equipment, material and labour costs, irrespective of your own or a trade are likely to exceed the value of the boat. For example, you pay £1000 for a boat, spend £250 on materials and £250 on labour. The boat may now be considered a good example of that type and fetch £1150 when sold, being the P90 price for the spread of sales price for that boat. Surveyors know this, they have access to sales data and spread of prices, so don't expect a significant increase in value.

My advice is to try and do your own research and look at the range of asking prices for your boat. Add up all the material costs, your own labour costs, say £50/hour and professional trades costs. List the upgrades and prepare a report for your valuation survey and hand over to the surveyor. At best you may see a small increase in value. What I think is important is that you get the surveyor to recognise the integrity work and upgrade work in his report the justifies the new valuation and demonstrates that value erosion through wear and tear, should a claim be made, is unreasonable. In other words, you are protecting yourself agains an insurance company claiming deductions for fair wear and tear.

In my case I managed to get a modest 15% increase on my boats value after refit, that included a lot of trades work. I think it is worth more than this increase, but that was what the survey value came up with. While I disagree with the value, I have learned to live with it and accept the outcome. I diligently log my maintenance and improvements and notify my insurance company from time to time e.g new liferaft, new sails etc.

And remember, you have spent money to maintain the integrity of the boat because some else failed to do so. The insurance company is not interested in what they see as a duty on the owner to preserve the condition of the boat in a seaworthy state to limit their risk. However, if market value is now represented in the boat after your work, I think it is fair to have it insured for that. But do your work to sell your case to the valuer and convince the insurer. Your premium will go up if the value is increased.