On my old First 38 there were two deep freezers with an outboard facing chart table on top. That layout worked well - unless you were hacking upwind..
Now I’d miss sitting down planning a route.
New Chart Table for 'Sruth'
Re: New Chart Table for 'Sruth'
Many years ago I was tempted by an X119 probably as much by the bargain price as by the speed. One of the things that put me off almost as much as the very deep torpedo keel was the outward facing chart table, I just could not see myself comfy and secure as I planned for next mornings nav. and tides. But if you are happy standing, here are my comments on your plan.
Having a bit of difficulty with the depth but I presume it does not obstruct access past the companionway ladder. 50 mm drawers fully extended will need to be strongly made with strong and smooth runners to resist torque when opened close to fully, If the runner system allows them to twist at all they may tend to jam? One deeper drawer might be easier to construct?
You might want to dedicate some storage to pilot books,tidal atlas, etc, Nice if they are stowed spine up for making a selection. Binos, hand held Vhf etc?
800 mm is really closer to sitting height than comfortable standing height. If it wus me I would keep it that height but provide a knee space in the centre, it needs to be 600mm wide and at least 500mm high so you should be able to keep both proposed chart drawers but I might be temped to have one drawer plus a slot for charts to be used. Our boat has an Ikea garden folding stool looks like teak but isn't (doubles as a table to set the gin on in the cockpit) that could be stowed in the kneespace. Discharging your heater duct in to the kneespace would be an idea?
If you stick with the plan as drawn with the intention of standing to use the table it might subject to headroom be worth considering raising the top surface a couple of inches. Easy to assess most comfortable standing and working heights in your kitchen.
Nothing wrong with the plan as drawn, you asked for comments and these are mine, I enjoy designing stuff.
Having a bit of difficulty with the depth but I presume it does not obstruct access past the companionway ladder. 50 mm drawers fully extended will need to be strongly made with strong and smooth runners to resist torque when opened close to fully, If the runner system allows them to twist at all they may tend to jam? One deeper drawer might be easier to construct?
You might want to dedicate some storage to pilot books,tidal atlas, etc, Nice if they are stowed spine up for making a selection. Binos, hand held Vhf etc?
800 mm is really closer to sitting height than comfortable standing height. If it wus me I would keep it that height but provide a knee space in the centre, it needs to be 600mm wide and at least 500mm high so you should be able to keep both proposed chart drawers but I might be temped to have one drawer plus a slot for charts to be used. Our boat has an Ikea garden folding stool looks like teak but isn't (doubles as a table to set the gin on in the cockpit) that could be stowed in the kneespace. Discharging your heater duct in to the kneespace would be an idea?
If you stick with the plan as drawn with the intention of standing to use the table it might subject to headroom be worth considering raising the top surface a couple of inches. Easy to assess most comfortable standing and working heights in your kitchen.
Nothing wrong with the plan as drawn, you asked for comments and these are mine, I enjoy designing stuff.
Re: New Chart Table for 'Sruth'
Important correction to my comments above, knee space height should be close to 600mm. and width would work at 500mm. my figures above were transposed.
-
wully
- Yellow Admiral
- Posts: 1589
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:29 pm
- Boat Type: Wingfoil- badly
- Location: Argyll - where else?
Re: New Chart Table for 'Sruth'
Going upwind in a bit of a breeze with an outward facing chart table you are either trying to peer over the chart which is almost at eye level or trying to stop yourself sprawling all over it..I never found any use for a bum strap as it was such a faff trying to get yer chuff close enough to the table to hook it round. It was easier on that boat to wedge a foot on the galley end.
Can you tell I’m not a fan?
Outward facing cludgies are also a no-no for me. Exiting the head airborne with yer breeks round yer ankles is not a pleasant experience for one of the crew. Amusing for the remainder though...
Can you tell I’m not a fan?
Outward facing cludgies are also a no-no for me. Exiting the head airborne with yer breeks round yer ankles is not a pleasant experience for one of the crew. Amusing for the remainder though...
Re: New Chart Table for 'Sruth'
Bit Defender my internet Nanny does not like me coming here but then she objects to me using Sky Broadband so perhaps not so stupid?
Anyway, a couple more thoughts. A poke around in an upmarket kitchen showroom will give some ideas about detailing annd assembling large drawers and making sure they run and close well to compensate for the weight of charts (or you coud do what I do and only take the charts likely to be of use on each trip). Some use a stainless steel profile for the sides which incorporates the runners,this avoids risk of warping always a risk with large shallow wooden structures
Assuming the finish is clear finished veneer to match existing. as drawn there will be an awful lot of lipping to edges, a lifetimes work, an alternative might be to enlarge the drawer fronts and increase their overlap, with a dummy panel on the same plane at the tank it would be possible to bury and hide the carcass so that its focus would be on strength while the drawer fronts would meet to hide it? Perhaps with a narrow (6mm?)shadow gap between them to give a fitting tolerance. A slightly raised rounded edge lipping around each drawer front would not be too difficult to do and easier than flush edging, so a drawer front could be a veneered ply panel with something like a 6mm. mitred lipping, you can make the drawers as simple boxes delaying fixing the drawer fronts to them until everything is installed, the more you can do in a workshop the easier it will be. (You realize that you should have started this project last month)A problem with drawer fronts covering the full front is that you may have to use pull handles, if you do choose some that fold flush for the sake of your knees. If you are standing most of the time the front is going to get kicked to death so a replaceable plinth to match the drawer fronts might be an idea?
Anyway, a couple more thoughts. A poke around in an upmarket kitchen showroom will give some ideas about detailing annd assembling large drawers and making sure they run and close well to compensate for the weight of charts (or you coud do what I do and only take the charts likely to be of use on each trip). Some use a stainless steel profile for the sides which incorporates the runners,this avoids risk of warping always a risk with large shallow wooden structures
Assuming the finish is clear finished veneer to match existing. as drawn there will be an awful lot of lipping to edges, a lifetimes work, an alternative might be to enlarge the drawer fronts and increase their overlap, with a dummy panel on the same plane at the tank it would be possible to bury and hide the carcass so that its focus would be on strength while the drawer fronts would meet to hide it? Perhaps with a narrow (6mm?)shadow gap between them to give a fitting tolerance. A slightly raised rounded edge lipping around each drawer front would not be too difficult to do and easier than flush edging, so a drawer front could be a veneered ply panel with something like a 6mm. mitred lipping, you can make the drawers as simple boxes delaying fixing the drawer fronts to them until everything is installed, the more you can do in a workshop the easier it will be. (You realize that you should have started this project last month)A problem with drawer fronts covering the full front is that you may have to use pull handles, if you do choose some that fold flush for the sake of your knees. If you are standing most of the time the front is going to get kicked to death so a replaceable plinth to match the drawer fronts might be an idea?
Re: New Chart Table for 'Sruth'
My insomnia leads me to trying to solve problems that I tend to invent so your chart table is a great substitute.
So I have decided what I would do. modular construction, 4 units, one sheet of 12mm veneered birch ply, one of plain. Finnish WBP birch is fine.
I would cut 6 gables from 12 or 16mm birch ply from a hardboard template of the hull profile, to make 3 units, only the exposed face of the aft one would need to be veneered, the others can be painted or stained with an outdoor stain, Sikkens or Int. Woodskin? The lower edges will need to be well sealed. The inner gables will only extend vertically to below the full width plan drawer which will be added later on top. Each gable will have a 44x19 sw batten on the aft face screwed flush with the vertical front edge. Three carcasses assembled with bottom and top surfaces battened and screwed and glued to form a frontless and backless box, the vertical battens will space the front edges and a 44x8 or 12mm vertical hardwood lipping screwed or glued to cover the front. The bases and top will extend a litlle to secure against battens on the hull, THese horizontal battens can be epoxy glued in place after planing the top so that it finishes horizontal. The drawer will be made to hang on Blum or similar metal drawer sides, if these are not stainless, another couple of coats of white paint from a rattle can might help but they should be fine. Google metal drawer kits, lots of choice of length and depth in these metal sides used mainly for kitchens. The drawers will have the Blum sides and 12 mm. birch ply front and back finished with a woodstain 8mm should be thick enough for the bottom. Now the tricky bit, when all the drawers are in position fitted so that the fronts are flush with the lipping you are going to use a part sheet of veneered ply to front the whole thing, each front will be cut in sequence to match the veneer, they will be lipped all round with matching hardwood as thin as practical and can overlap your drawerbox fronts to completely hide the carcass, separated by just a narrow shadow gap vertically and horizontally, a dummy front to hide the fuel cock. It is probably desirable to use a strip of veneered ply 12mmx 94? similarly lipped as a plinth or skirting below the bottom run of drawers. You will not have your double width bottom drawer but the modular idea will make fabrication assembly and transportation much easier. The big plan drawer (and slot) at the top will then be added, the metal drawer sides start at 89mm tall but seem not to be longer than 550mm but your folded chart is 520 so should work okay. The slot will be below the drawer on top of the three modules. 12 mm will not be stiff enogh for the top surface, 16 or 19mm ply should be okay, but if you are doing it all out of one sheet of veneered 12mm. then you can laminate on a second layer or add battens underneath above the drawer, if these are screwed and well glued they do not need to be very deep.
Just to add, my suggestion of a knee space for sitting was rubbish,there is not enough depth at floor level for feet, however if it was my boat I would not be considering an outward facing standing unit anyway. I enjoy huddling in a corner with charts, pilot books and tide tables too much to want to do it standing. I still have my CAD plotter here and can draw and print full size to any length (but max 600mm width, unless you buy m a roll of paper) if it helps, I would need firm instructions and a some more dims. but at this time of year the service is free. I might have some strips of teak if that is what the boat is.
Cheers, Joe aka Quandary or Corona (soon to be replaced with Girona, same boat just a bit of typographical adjustment).
So I have decided what I would do. modular construction, 4 units, one sheet of 12mm veneered birch ply, one of plain. Finnish WBP birch is fine.
I would cut 6 gables from 12 or 16mm birch ply from a hardboard template of the hull profile, to make 3 units, only the exposed face of the aft one would need to be veneered, the others can be painted or stained with an outdoor stain, Sikkens or Int. Woodskin? The lower edges will need to be well sealed. The inner gables will only extend vertically to below the full width plan drawer which will be added later on top. Each gable will have a 44x19 sw batten on the aft face screwed flush with the vertical front edge. Three carcasses assembled with bottom and top surfaces battened and screwed and glued to form a frontless and backless box, the vertical battens will space the front edges and a 44x8 or 12mm vertical hardwood lipping screwed or glued to cover the front. The bases and top will extend a litlle to secure against battens on the hull, THese horizontal battens can be epoxy glued in place after planing the top so that it finishes horizontal. The drawer will be made to hang on Blum or similar metal drawer sides, if these are not stainless, another couple of coats of white paint from a rattle can might help but they should be fine. Google metal drawer kits, lots of choice of length and depth in these metal sides used mainly for kitchens. The drawers will have the Blum sides and 12 mm. birch ply front and back finished with a woodstain 8mm should be thick enough for the bottom. Now the tricky bit, when all the drawers are in position fitted so that the fronts are flush with the lipping you are going to use a part sheet of veneered ply to front the whole thing, each front will be cut in sequence to match the veneer, they will be lipped all round with matching hardwood as thin as practical and can overlap your drawerbox fronts to completely hide the carcass, separated by just a narrow shadow gap vertically and horizontally, a dummy front to hide the fuel cock. It is probably desirable to use a strip of veneered ply 12mmx 94? similarly lipped as a plinth or skirting below the bottom run of drawers. You will not have your double width bottom drawer but the modular idea will make fabrication assembly and transportation much easier. The big plan drawer (and slot) at the top will then be added, the metal drawer sides start at 89mm tall but seem not to be longer than 550mm but your folded chart is 520 so should work okay. The slot will be below the drawer on top of the three modules. 12 mm will not be stiff enogh for the top surface, 16 or 19mm ply should be okay, but if you are doing it all out of one sheet of veneered 12mm. then you can laminate on a second layer or add battens underneath above the drawer, if these are screwed and well glued they do not need to be very deep.
Just to add, my suggestion of a knee space for sitting was rubbish,there is not enough depth at floor level for feet, however if it was my boat I would not be considering an outward facing standing unit anyway. I enjoy huddling in a corner with charts, pilot books and tide tables too much to want to do it standing. I still have my CAD plotter here and can draw and print full size to any length (but max 600mm width, unless you buy m a roll of paper) if it helps, I would need firm instructions and a some more dims. but at this time of year the service is free. I might have some strips of teak if that is what the boat is.
Cheers, Joe aka Quandary or Corona (soon to be replaced with Girona, same boat just a bit of typographical adjustment).
Re: New Chart Table for 'Sruth'
Another thought, if you need good quality ply veneered or otherwise, Adam Way might be prepared to add it to his next order. Save a lot on transportation?