Scots culture

[bosun higgs]

Forgive the link to another place but you will see in http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236660 that the question of the very different political complexion of Scotland has been raised.

As a Brit (an Englishman living in Wales ) it has always puzzled me. Hopefully friendly rivalries apart, Scotland and Wales have always been to me regions of the UK where the accent is a bit different but where there is vastly more in common that there are differences. So I don't understand why the political attitudes are so different.

Any Scot care to explain?

[marisca]

I thought references to TOP and particularly "The Lounge" were discouraged on this fine forum - and it is a much better place for it!

As for different political attitudes, both Wales and Scotland are predominantly socialist (with a small s). Perhaps Wales has more white settlers distorting their vote?

[bosun higgs]

I didn't know anything about YBW being " beyond the pale". Whats all that about? Or maybe best not answered in case it starts some sort of war of words.

But you didnt answer a genuine question. And what on earth are white settlers when most of Wales and most of Scotland are a great deal whiter than England is these days?

It's a puzzle. There is a huge difference in political attitudes between Scotland and England and I don't know why. Sure there are similarities in the ex industrial areas, but Scotland is if anything more rural than England so de-industrialisation cannot be the reason.

[marisca]

I understood from your post that you didn't understand "why the political attitudes are so different" between Scotland and Wales whereas to me they appear very similar.
If the question really was why are the English the odd ones out, I could offer conjecture but I'm sure there are greater minds than mine able to analyse the causes and they probably have.

[Fingal]

Forgive the link to another place but you will see in http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236660 that the question of the very different political complexion of Scotland has been raised.

As a Brit (an Englishman living in Wales ) it has always puzzled me. Hopefully friendly rivalries apart, Scotland and Wales have always been to me regions of the UK where the accent is a bit different but where there is vastly more in common that there are differences. So I don't understand why the political attitudes are so different.

Any Scot care to explain?

Different histories, different languages (up until the 18th century almost everyone in Scotland either spoke Gaelic or Scots, the latter a language distinct from English in the same way that, say, Portuguese is different from Castilian Spanish or the Dutch spoken in the Netherlands is from the Deutsch spoken in Deutschland).
The protestant reformation and the establishment of a church without bishops.
The declaration of Arbroath and the principle of rule by consent rather than by divine authority.
As m'learned friend says a different economic history in the 19th & 20th centuries, etc. etc.
A long standing resentment of the so-common conflation of 'England' and 'Britain' in so much discourse.
The view that the Treaty of Union was signed by 'a parcel of rogues' taking advantage of an economic catastrophe in Scotland..... That's just off the top of my head; understand that I'm not complaining and resentful about any of these things, just offering some explanations

'White settlers' in this context means usually relatively well-off English persons taking advantage of lower property prices in rural Scotland and Wales to live comfortably among us natives.

Oh! Look! I've been promoted!

[Silkie]

And a most erudite post, albeit somewhat lacking in sailing content, to mark your advancement.

[Silkie]

I thought references to TOP and particularly "The Lounge" were discouraged on this fine forum - and it is a much better place for it!

Indeed. If you're interested in a discussion in another place why not take part in it over there?

[DaveS]

I thought references to TOP and particularly "The Lounge" were discouraged on this fine forum - and it is a much better place for it!

Indeed. If you're interested in a discussion in another place why not take part in it over there?

Indeed. By carelessly following the link (it's a bit early) I just did, then wondered why I'd found myself in The Lounge. And I really was trying to give it up. (My name's Dave and I haven't posted in the Lounge now for several weeks - oh damn!)

[bosun higgs]

I thought references to TOP and particularly "The Lounge" were discouraged on this fine forum - and it is a much better place for it!

Indeed. If you're interested in a discussion in another place why not take part in it over there?

Have done exactly that, but given that this is very much a Scots forum and I was looking for an answer from Scottish people, I thought I might do better over here.

But reading between the lines, my question seems to have been viewed with suspicion / resentment. Whether this is because I'm English or because I raised the issue of Gaelic place names on charts, or because I raised the question in "another place" I do not know.

[claymore]

I thought references to TOP and particularly "The Lounge" were discouraged on this fine forum - and it is a much better place for it!

Indeed. If you're interested in a discussion in another place why not take part in it over there?

Have done exactly that, but given that this is very much a Scots forum and I was looking for an answer from Scottish people, I thought I might do better over here.

But reading between the lines, my question seems to have been viewed with suspicion / resentment. Whether this is because I'm English or because I raised the issue of Gaelic place names on charts, or because I raised the question in "another place" I do not know.

I don't think its any of that - indeed I cannot see that your question has been viewed negatively at all. The Silken one pointed out that it wasn't about sailing - there were a few other comments that I felt were tongue in cheek about YBW and that was about it.

I did have a look at the thread in YBW and felt it was just the airing of opinions on political issues. All quite well made, some to agree with others not depending on personal background and perspective.

It is impossible to answer your question of course because it is the wrong question to ask - There is myth, habit, legend and lies surrounding culture and half the time it just gets in the way making it difficult to get to the facts - which battle should we pin it all on, which landlord, which feckless short sighted politician, which self interested trades union convenor? - try and get to listen to Dick Gaughan - Nae Gods and Precious Few Heroes. Its a good song.

Bingo - saved you the effort


I was listening to the news the other day
I heard a fat politician who had the nerve to say
He was proud to be Scottish, by the way
With the glories of our past to remember
"Here's tae us, wha's like us", listen to the cry
No surrender to the truth and here's the reason why
The power and the glory's just another bloody lie
They use to keep us all in line
For there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And it's time now to sweep the future clear
Of the lies of a past that we know was never real
Farewell to the heather in the glen
They cleared us off once and they'd do it all again
For they still prefer sheep to thinking men
Ah, but men who think like sheep are even better
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new
They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you
Just mind you pay your rent to the factor when it's due
And mind your bloody manners when you pay!
And tell me will we never hear the end
Of puir bluidy Charlie at Culloden yet again?
Though he ran like a rabbit down the glen
Leavin better folk than him to be butchered
Or are you sittin in your Council house, dreamin o your clan?
Waiting for the Jacobites to come and free the land?
Try going down the broo with your claymore in your hand
And count all the Princes in the queue!
So don't talk to me of Scotland the Brave
For if we don't fight soon there'll be nothing left to save
Or would you rather stand and watch them dig your grave
While you wait for the Tartan Messiah?
He'll lead us to the Promised Land with laughter in his eye
We'll all live on the oil and the whisky by and by
Free heavy beer! Pie suppers in the sky! -
Will we never have the sense to learn?
That there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And I'm damned sure that there's plenty live in fear
Of the day we stand together with our shoulders at the wheel
Aye there's no Gods

[Nick]

.
It's a Brian McNeill song (which Gaughin does better IMO) - here's McNeill performing it

[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DUI1O8m-L7k[/youtube]

I agree though - to understand the Scots you could do worse than listen to Gaughin.

[aquaplane]

Where's me tin hat?






Erica, where's me tin hat, I'm gona need it?





I thought Scottish culture was an oxymoron?

[little boy blue]

the only thing you need to know about the scots is that we`re a jock thamson`s bairns.
now take this sh*ite back to the lounge where it belongs.
as i`m sure ash would tell you, if he was here, -
"THIS IS A SAILING FORUM !"

its a while since they`ve had an outing, so here are -









the bluemoment pipe band playing " farewell to the bosun ".

[claymore]

A tad harsh?

[Nick]

A tad harsh?

I thought so . . . is the bosun not also one of Jock Thompson's flock?