BLUEMOMENT

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The yard is full of boats and the bay has many empty moorings. We went out to Fairwinds to do an oil change this afternoon and used warming the engine up as an excuse for a quick thrash down the sound for a couple of miles and back in a warm, blue, sparkling F4. We have had more good weather this month so far than in the whole of August and September put together - long may it continue.

Am thinking (very tentatively) of using the money we save by staying in to purchase and fit an Eberspacher, although space is of necessity limited. Any non-fatuous advice welcome.

Eberspacher, Webasto, Mikuni: How do you choose? Are they all variations on a theme (i.e. all unreliable) or does one make genuinely have an edge either through simplicity to install, just be being more robust or better spares/servicing suppport?
Have you considered a water/radiator system as opposed to hot air?

Or what about Propex, the gas system? Fuel cost may be slightly greater but the fact that the gas is easier to light avoids a whole layer of complexity in the device I would think.

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Our gas locker only takes Camping Gaz, and that is now so insanely expensive that it would probably be cheaper to have the boat shipped to the Caribbean for the Winter than to run a gas heater.

The main problem I have come acros with Eberspachers is that they will not start unless the battery responsible for the job is 100% charged; however, they can nearly always be started if you run the engine , then they will keep going once the engine is stopped. No experience of Webasto or Mikuni, but Eberspacher are easier to get second hand I believe.

If you are buying second hand I am sure that you have to ensure they are 12 volt as most come from trucks and run on 24 volt systems.

Is it not possible to convert locker to take Calor as the price saving is tremendous. Think Calor 4.5kg is £13.50 and Camping gaz 2.7kg is £19.30 So price of equivalent 4.5kg Camping Gaz is about £32

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Sadly no - small boat problem. The gas locker for a Calor bottle would be too deep to drain overboard.

(And also we wanted to go with Camping Gaz when we spent our year away - you can't get Calor in most places)

Only prob with eber is - heating the place is all they do. And since the boat is near the house, and since you won't be going out except for day thrashes (qv) till it's a bit warmer, well, not much use for it, really. On a small boat i think i would get betters duvets and longjohns and/or I *might* get a little honda generator and some sort of safe eg oil filled heater, cos the genny would allow me to do loads of other electricalish things. Of course, this post would be loads better without the fatuous comment embargo.

Where/when the year away?

We love our eber. Never had a problem with the battery, Nick. Always run it with the engine off. Makes staying on the boat in the winter much more pleasant. And, as you rightly say, the sailing at the moment, and last winter for that matter, makes teh cost worthwhile, surely?

When we sail, we're not usually cold. It's the early mornings that put us off. Run the heater for 10 minutes whilst still tucked in bed and it's a completely different feel to the day.

Where/when the year away?

Did I say something?

Doubt we will go away for a whole year again, but we have talked about taking the boat either into the Med or basing her in the Canaries. We've stil got stuff we want to do here though - Norway for one thing, maybe the Baltic, so we are not sure.

What we really want to do is get a second small boat to keep in the Canaries - prob. based mostly in San Sebastian. We thought maybe we could share with one or two other peeps as a sort of floating saily timeshare that can be moved from island to island, with the occasional trip up to Madeira or the Azores if we are feeling adventurous. At the moment a lack of money and doing stuff to the house precludes, but that is very much a favourite idea for the next year or so.

How cheap/expensive is Las Palmas eating drinking and general living wise these days? Can you still get half drinkable wine for a euro a litre and a plate of chorizo or calamari for six or seven euros, or has it all rocketed? (I think I know the answer to this one).

Never had a problem with our Eber (touch wood). and highly recommend them. Only niggle I have is that we don't have a thermostat so it is either cold or roasting. Does anyone know how easy it is to fit a variable thermostat arrangement?

Nick wrote:

Where/when the year away?

How cheap/expensive is Las Palmas eating drinking and general living wise these days? Can you still get half drinkable wine for a euro a litre and a plate of chorizo or calamari for six or seven euros, or has it all rocketed? (I think I know the answer to this one).

I am not yet any sort of expert on LP but even the Sailor's Bar has lotsa stuff for 6/7 euros, bound to be other places loads cheaper.

I’m thinking about fitting a heater too. A bloke was telling me that I should get a generator then I can charge the batteries, and run a fan heater;microwave;TV;kettle and all the rest.
I don’t think I could cope with the noise of a generator even if I could cope with spending the £500 or £600 it would be for a >1kw suitcase type. A frame generator would be out of the question noise wise but they are much cheaper for equivalent output.
To keep warm and dry I think a warm air blower is the way forward. Warming the wet air up is OK but I think ventilation is important or else the boat is going to get damp/mildew as soon as it cools down when we leave.
We don’t have any gas or plans to start using it so a Propex heater is out.
A second hand Eber can be got off fleabay for about £350 to £500 and the ducting/exhaust costs about the same then it has to be fitted. I have a quote from Shepherds to supply and fit a new one, only £2400. (£600 + £100 VAT for fitting included in that but bl00dy hell).
A Webasto will be £1700 supplied and fitted by Total Sailing, I don’t need to do anything except pay, it’s tempting.
I like the Wallas, it’s frugal on the amps once running and I can probably get one and have it fitted for about the same as the Webasto , but not many folk have them (except my dad), and it makes me wonder why, not that he has had any trouble with his in 20 yrs.

Our Eberspacher was fitted a year or two ago by the team at Kilmelford.
The total bill was £1680 +vat.
It works perfectly - each time all the time. I did a lot of thinking and research into them at the time and it seems that many problems are created when they are located in lockers where damp sails and wet fenders are stowed.
There was also a strong body of opinion that suggested that you were better buying a new one and that there was a degree of false economy in going for a reconditioned one as there seem to be reliabilty issues surrounding that approach

claymore wrote:There was also a strong body of opinion that suggested that you were better buying a new one and that there was a degree of false economy in going for a reconditioned one as there seem to be reliabilty issues surrounding that approach

A friend of mine went the false economy route and ended up with the interior of the boat covered in soot, in fact when Claysie went ashore in Oban he was nearly arrested for looking like a golliwog.

Nick wrote:

Where/when the year away?

What we really want to do is get a second small boat to keep in the Canaries - prob. based mostly in San Sebastian. We thought maybe we could share with one or two other peeps as a sort of floating saily timeshare that can be moved from island to island, with the occasional trip up to Madeira or the Azores if we are feeling adventurous. At the moment a lack of money and doing stuff to the house precludes, but that is very much a favourite idea for the next year or so.

Can I suggest that if that is your dream and lack of money to buy this boat is the problem then I would think seriously about chartering.
Off the top of my head a bog standard Bavaria 39 (3 double berths) can be had for £2,000 per week even in high season. Charter with some friends and the cost per head is very good value. You can pay in sterling so no forex hassle.
You can go tomorrow !
The problems with buying and locating a yacht in Canaries or wherever in S Europe are:
1. Cost. You'd be lucky to get away with £40,000 when you take into account legals and commissions etc.
2. You'd have to pay in eiros...not good at the moment.
3. You'd have to pay mooring fees for the full year.
4. And insurance
5 And maintenance
etc etc
Think about it.
Work out the costs for, say, two, two week each charters a year with four friends to share cost.
Then work out cost for keeping a yacht all year in a Spanish Marina.