BLUEMOMENT

claymore wrote: Arseylittletwat

I think you are being rather hard on yourself.

This has gone on long enough
Final post on this thread for me
X

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Happy now Cooper?

Surely you must realise this forum isn't for discussing anything as contentious as how we actually sail?

Nick wrote:Indeed - and I think you will find that either will sail downwind with the boom centred.

Dead downwind?

Nick wrote:Standard practice on the majority of non-racing boats in anything but the lightest of airs.

So if Claymore declared himself to be permanantly racing, in a personal race with one entry, he could Gybe any way he wished with no criticism?

Mark wrote:

Nick wrote:Indeed - and I think you will find that either will sail downwind with the boom centred.

Dead downwind?

Well, Fairwinds certainly will . . . as I remarked before, we do so on occasion to drop the main. With no lazyjacks it needs careful helming though.

Generally though if we are talking about taking care to centre the main momentarily before rather than synchronous with the main going through the wind the time spent in this configuration would be in the order of perhaps one second, and the boat would be on a very broad reach rather than dead downwind. I fail to see how this woujld ever prevent a boat frmo gybing, as there is stil plenty of way on apart form anything else, and of course the genoa is now drawing.

I suspect Old Troll and I are pretty much describing the same thing, though he is describing it as a continuous process rather than a series of steps. I find it easier to break it down into a series of discrete steps when teaching or describing the process.

Who knows, perhaps even Claymore is saying the same thing in his own mysterious way. It may be a grey/green issue.

Mark wrote:

Nick wrote:Standard practice on the majority of non-racing boats in anything but the lightest of airs.

So if Claymore declared himself to be permanantly racing, in a personal race with one entry, he could Gybe any way he wished with no criticism?

What you describe may well correspond with Claymore's approach to sailing come to think of it . . .

I don't care how Claymore cares to execute a gybe. He can bare his arse as he does it if he wishes, but he should realise that he is unlikely to convince me that it is normal or sensible practice and accept that fact with a good grace

Nick wrote:

Mark wrote:

Nick wrote:Indeed - and I think you will find that either will sail downwind with the boom centred.

Dead downwind?

Well, Fairwinds certainly will

I'm sure she will, but I don't think all dinghies will sail dead downwind with the boom centred. Maybe the more pedestrian dinghies might.

Nick wrote:

Mark wrote:

Nick wrote:Standard practice on the majority of non-racing boats in anything but the lightest of airs.

So if Claymore declared himself to be permanantly racing, in a personal race with one entry, he could Gybe any way he wished with no criticism?

What you describe may well correspond with Claymore's approach to sailing come to think of it . . .

I don't care how Claymore cares to execute a gybe. He can bare his arse as he does it if he wishes, but he should realise that he is unlikely to convince me that it is normal or sensible practice and accept that fact with a good grace

Unless he's racing. In which case it is sensible?

You see what I'm getting at?

Mark wrote:
I'm sure she will, but I don't think all dinghies will sail dead downwind with the boom centred. Maybe the more pedestrian dinghies might.

You may well be right - most of the dinghies I have sailed in recent decades have been fairly pedestrian.

What happens if you try to sail a less pedestrian dinghy dead downwind with the boom centered?

Mark wrote:
Unless he's racing. In which case it is sensible?

You see what I'm getting at?

I see what you are getting at. If you think racing a Claymore against yourself is sensible then why not?

However, I do get the impression you are largely arguing for the sake of it

Nick wrote:

Mark wrote:
I'm sure she will, but I don't think all dinghies will sail dead downwind with the boom centred. Maybe the more pedestrian dinghies might.

You may well be right - most of the dinghies I have sailed in recent decades have been fairly pedestrian.

What happens if you try to sail a less pedestrian dinghy dead downwind with the boom centered?

I've never tried it, but I would think the wind would immediately get one side or t'other and flip you in.

Your weight would be central in the boat. Then in an instant you'd be massively over sheeted with too much sheet to dump and no hope of turning something like 100 degrees to point the power away in time.

Having said that I don't think it's that easy to sail dead downwind in yachts with the boom centred. The one time I tried to sail dead downwind in a decent wind and sea in a yacht with a centred mainsheet the thing nearly shook itself to bits and broached us repeatedly. Apparently 10,000 violent mini gybes and regular broaches was 'safer' than having the boom correctly trimmed for the point of sail. Up until then we'd had zero accidental gybes and we'd be sailing well with no dramas.

Nick wrote:However, I do get the impression you are largely arguing for the sake of it

No I'm genuinely not.

If a technique is effective when racing I honestly don't see how it could be a problem cruising.

Mark wrote: I don't think it's that easy to sail dead downwind in yachts with the boom centred. The one time I tried to sail dead downwind in a decent wind and sea in a yacht with a centred mainsheet the thing nearly shook itself to bits and broached us repeatedly. Apparently 10,000 violent mini gybes and regular broaches was 'safer' than having the boom correctly trimmed for the point of sail. Up until then we'd had zero accidental gybes and we'd be sailing well with no dramas.

You seem to think I am advocating this as normal sail trim. When gybing by centring the main first (while on a broad reach 20-30 degrees off dead downwind) you will be in this configuration for all of a few seconds at most.

I only drop the main going downwind in flat water. A nightmare on the coachroof would be the result in a seaway. What were you trying to do when you tried sailing downwind with the boom centred 'in a decent wind and sea' ? Seems like an odd thing to do.

Mark wrote:

Nick wrote:However, I do get the impression you are largely arguing for the sake of it

No I'm genuinely not.

If a technique is effective when racing I honestly don't see how it could be a problem cruising.

What technique?